[csaba73]

All,

this is my first post in this forum so be nice to me

I would like to get the best sounding computer system for blu-ray movies, games and iTunes music (in this order). My current rig is a Logitech z5500 on a nVidia 790i ultra sli mobo and Creative Titanium Fatal1ty XFi on Win7-64bit. Moreover I have just bought two GTX480 GPUs . I use both VLC and PowerDVD10. As far as gaming is concerned: Crysis (Warhead), Civ IV, Far Cry2, Assassins Creed II.

I have had lots of issues with the XFi and this is partly due to my SLI GPU setup and the nVidia 790i mobo. With Windows 7 this is better, but I still would consider replacing this XFi with another discrete sound card if I get better sound quality and less hassle with drivers. There is still space on the Mobo for a PCIe card and maybe a PCI card as well (although the latter would be sitting between two really hot GTX480s).

Following cards might fit the bill:
- Xonar D2x
- Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe

The D2X has the benefit that it will fit into the spare PCIe slot and has 5.1 analogue out on the card together with the SPDIF. The HDAV probably has better audio but I would need to insert the option H6 multi-channel card between the really hot and probably very EMI noisy GTX480s, moreover I will never use the HDMI as I already use the superior dual-link DVI for video-out.

QUESTION:
1- when playing back blu-ray in AVCHD format do you decode the DD or DTS on the Logitech Z5500 via SPDIF or on the Sound Card and send via 5.1 analogue to speakers?
2- are there benefits for audio quality from PowerDVD over VLC?
3- is there a real quality difference in analogue audio-out between these cards and is this perceivable with the z5500?
4- does it make sense to replace the XFi or will the quality difference be too little?
5- will the gaming quality on these games improve with Xonar? I believe none of these games (or in fact any modern game) uses EAX5.

Probably very basic questions, thanks a lot for your kind support.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by csaba73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All, this is my first post in this forum so be nice to me I would like to get the best sounding computer system for blu-ray movies, games and iTunes music (in this order). My current rig is a Logitech z5500 on a nVidia 790i ultra sli mobo and Creative Titanium Fatal1ty XFi on Win7-64bit. Moreover I have just bought two GTX480 GPUs . I use both VLC and PowerDVD10. As far as gaming is concerned: Crysis (Warhead), Civ IV, Far Cry2, Assassins Creed II. I have had lots of issues with the XFi and this is partly due to my SLI GPU setup and the nVidia 790i mobo. With Windows 7 this is better, but I still would consider replacing this XFi with another discrete sound card if I get better sound quality and less hassle with drivers. There is still space on the Mobo for a PCIe card and maybe a PCI card as well (although the latter would be sitting between two really hot GTX480s). Following cards might fit the bill: - Xonar D2x - Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe The D2X has the benefit that it will fit into the spare PCIe slot and has 5.1 analogue out on the card together with the SPDIF. The HDAV probably has better audio but I would need to insert the option H6 multi-channel card between the really hot and probably very EMI noisy GTX480s, moreover I will never use the HDMI as I already use the superior dual-link DVI for video-out. QUESTION: 1- when playing back blu-ray in AVCHD format do you decode the DD or DTS on the Logitech Z5500 via SPDIF or on the Sound Card and send via 5.1 analogue to speakers? 2- are there benefits for audio quality from PowerDVD over VLC? 3- is there a real quality difference in analogue audio-out between these cards and is this perceivable with the z5500? 4- does it make sense to replace the XFi or will the quality difference be too little? 5- will the gaming quality on these games improve with Xonar? I believe none of these games (or in fact any modern game) uses EAX5. Probably very basic questions, thanks a lot for your kind support.

Grab an Auzentech Forte over the two Xonars for gaming. You will still reap some performance benefits. Infact, don't change the card, if your XFI works.

1. Let the Logitech do it via SPDIF.

2. I don't believe so; if I recall VLC can't do bitstreaming audio perfectly, BUT, I don't even know that you can do that with the GTX480s.

3. Not really, between those too.

4. If you use the XFI now fine (IE, have no issues), there is no reason to upgrade. For games, send the SPDIF to the speakers. For movies, try to setup some kind of bitstreaming audio (IE: HDMI audio to a decent receiver, to the speakers again.) or find a way to output the SPDIF without the higher-end DD encoding (DTS/DD/PCM limited.)

5. Nope. Even though they don't support EAX5, some still support hardware accelerated sound. Which offloads CPU cycles. Not that your SLI 480s need help.

I'm not well versed in the Blu-Ray department, so #4 feels like I might be off somewhere... But the others I'm confident in.

 

[csaba73]

Hybrys,

thanks a lot for your swift response. In fact, I do have some issues w the XFi that even over SPDIF in many films it does not correctly decode the information to DD or DTS. In these cases i get some type of echo in the playback esp for special effects (not on voice). If it decodes correctly all is well. Before inserting the 2 GPUs this was not an issue so I believe there is some form of interference on the bus.

Would the Xonar solve this?

As a side question: Why do you recommend to decode the DD info on the Logitech z5500 and not in the sound card?

thanks

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by csaba73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hybrys, thanks a lot for your swift response. In fact, I do have some issues w the XFi that even over SPDIF in many films it does not correctly decode the information to DD or DTS. In these cases i get some type of echo in the playback esp for special effects (not on voice). If it decodes correctly all is well. Before inserting the 2 GPUs this was not an issue so I believe there is some form of interference on the bus. Would the Xonar solve this? As a side question: Why do you recommend to decode the DD info on the Logitech z5500 and not in the sound card? thanks

Something like the Xonar MIGHT fix it; I'm not quite sure exactly what the problem is. It might be some kind of unsupported codec or bottlenecking from the CPU or something. If you're sure the codec is correct, look into your processes and see if anything is amiss while playing. If you have an onboard optical/coaxial out, try feeding the Logitech with that, and see if the same errors occur. (Updating the drivers and making sure you test DD/DTS capability in the Windows Sound options first would be recommended.)

I recommended decoding the DD info at the Logitech from the same reasoning you came up with. Externalizing the sound will get away from any EMI possible (chances massively ramped up with those two new power-eaters/space-heaters). Also, the Logitech was built for the goal of decoding those streams specifically, not a tacked on feature such as a sound card might carry.

 

[csaba73]

Hybrys,

thanks a lot - I have indeed re-activated the onboard SPDIF-out after having installed the updated Realtek drivers. The Z5500 now correctly displays (always) the right digital format information during playback. Although this is a great step in the right direction, I still get the echo with playback in vlc.

I have not checked all audio format in which this occurs but at least in a52.

Can you pls explain how to update the codecs? and or check the processes?

thanks a lot

p.s. would the spdif out from the mainboard have the same quality as from the XFi card - i have only listened shortly but the onboard seems to have less definition.

 

[Hybrys]

We won't go into either of those things, unless you already know how. There's a lot that you can do wrong, and looking at processes takes some knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes.

The quality of the onboard SPDIF out compared to the XFI's SPDIF out should be near exactly like same, with the onboard producing more static. This is not a problem unless you can hear it.

 

[Lavcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by csaba73 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All, this is my first post in this forum so be nice to me I would like to get the best sounding computer system for blu-ray movies, games and iTunes music (in this order). My current rig is a Logitech z5500 on a nVidia 790i ultra sli mobo and Creative Titanium Fatal1ty XFi on Win7-64bit. Moreover I have just bought two GTX480 GPUs . I use both VLC and PowerDVD10. As far as gaming is concerned: Crysis (Warhead), Civ IV, Far Cry2, Assassins Creed II. I have had lots of issues with the XFi and this is partly due to my SLI GPU setup and the nVidia 790i mobo. With Windows 7 this is better, but I still would consider replacing this XFi with another discrete sound card if I get better sound quality and less hassle with drivers. There is still space on the Mobo for a PCIe card and maybe a PCI card as well (although the latter would be sitting between two really hot GTX480s). Following cards might fit the bill: - Xonar D2x - Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe The D2X has the benefit that it will fit into the spare PCIe slot and has 5.1 analogue out on the card together with the SPDIF. The HDAV probably has better audio but I would need to insert the option H6 multi-channel card between the really hot and probably very EMI noisy GTX480s, moreover I will never use the HDMI as I already use the superior dual-link DVI for video-out. QUESTION: 1- when playing back blu-ray in AVCHD format do you decode the DD or DTS on the Logitech Z5500 via SPDIF or on the Sound Card and send via 5.1 analogue to speakers? 2- are there benefits for audio quality from PowerDVD over VLC? 3- is there a real quality difference in analogue audio-out between these cards and is this perceivable with the z5500? 4- does it make sense to replace the XFi or will the quality difference be too little? 5- will the gaming quality on these games improve with Xonar? I believe none of these games (or in fact any modern game) uses EAX5. Probably very basic questions, thanks a lot for your kind support.

If Blu-ray is your main interest you might consider the Auzentech HomeTheater. I am using the HomeTheater under Windows 7 Professional 64, and Blu-ray discs play perfectly in PowerDVD 9 and sound quite good. I have not yet convinced myself that the HomeTheater is really, really truely giving me the promised non-downsampled Blu-ray audio, but I can't say it is downsampling for sure yet either. Either way, it sure sounds good.

For games I don't think you can do better than the HomeTheater, though the only game I play is World of Warcraft. Running WoW in XP compatibility mode allows hardware sound with Alchemy. I don't know about iTunes. I am a foobar girl and I would not touch iTunes with a ten foot pole.

If you wished you could still use HDMI for audio even if you do not use it for video. I have no experience with SPDIF, but I do know it is limited in bandwidth.

Perhaps since you are also running Windows 7 64, you might be able to answer a question for me about your experience with PowerDVD? When I run PowerDVD 9 under Windows XP the PowerDVD System Information function displays the expected information. This is true of a couple of different builds of PowerDVD 9. However under Windows 7 Professional 64-bit I do not get any PowerDVD System Information displayed at all, just the rounded cornered box with the four icons -- no text.

If anyone else knows about the PowerDVD System Information under Windows 7, please join the conversation.

 

[csaba73]

Hi Lavcat,
 
thanks a lot for your kind reply.  The AuzenTech HomeTheater sure looks good and if you have that kind of video setup with HDMI unique in its kind.  However I connect the monitors directly from the video cards via dual-link DVI and the audio goes from the Xfi to the Z5500s, so I do not need to enrich the HDMI signal.  Moreover the Z5500 does not have HDMI input so unfortunately this card will not be of help to me.  But thanks a lot for letting me know.
 
The issue with W7-64 on PowerDVD I never had.  Not sure what it may be.  However Cyberlink updates their apps very frequently, so maybe you should check if there is a patch on their website.  Also their tech support is very responsive.
 
hope this helps

 

[csaba73]

All,

I have done some testing and the echo on the spdif is actually introduced by VLC or at least PowerDVD does not suffer from the same issues. Not sure if VLC uses a faulty codec and PowerDVD has a different set of Codecs.

Anyway I also found a clear audible difference in using the SPDIF and 5.1 audio from the XFi card. SPDIF is cleaner more dynamic. moreover the 5.1 audio esp during silent parts in a film clearly suffers from high noise. Is this something which a card with better SNR (Xfi has 109db) can solve?

thanks
csaba
 

 

[Hybrys]

 
Quote:

All,

I have done some testing and the echo on the spdif is actually introduced by VLC or at least PowerDVD does not suffer from the same issues. Not sure if VLC uses a faulty codec and PowerDVD has a different set of Codecs.

Anyway I also found a clear audible difference in using the SPDIF and 5.1 audio from the XFi card. SPDIF is cleaner more dynamic. moreover the 5.1 audio esp during silent parts in a film clearly suffers from high noise. Is this something which a card with better SNR (Xfi has 109db) can solve?

thanks
csaba
 

Are you using the latest version of VLC?  Are you using Blu-Ray disks, or 1080p encoded files?  (IE: MKV/h.264 highest profile)  Is the static an issue when you're running SPDIF from the X-Fi AND onboard sound?  Are you saying having the Z-5500 hooked up via 5.1 analog suffers from high noise?
 
Heh.  Wall of questions for you.  There is probably another solution to your noise problem.  I don't know that a higher SNR would help.  Is the sound on your computer maxed, and you're adjusting it with the speakers, not the computer?  That would be optimal.  Are you using bit-perfect transport methods, if possible?  (Audio-Creation mode on the X-Fi + bit-perfect.  Or some kind of ASIO output from your favorite movie player.)

 

[csaba73]

Hybrys,
 
thanks for your interest in helping me - truly appreciated!
 
here some answers:
- VLC 1.0.5 (latest) and PowerDVD10 with latest patch
- playback MKVs, AVCHDs - tons of them- mainly use 300 and Black Hawk Down as they have really good quality sound effects
- All the volumes are set to 90 on the PC - I only change the volume on the Z5500.
- Z5500 hooked up via SPDIF AND 5.1 analogue
 
Actually it is not static but more of an echo or actually chopping of the background music i get in VLC over SPDIF (from soundcard AND from onboard), but only after 5 minutes and only in the more complex audio sections.  Again with PowerDVD no issues and also in Analogue no issue (just slightly worst quality).
 
Not sure if this matters but in VLC you can actually set the output which in Win32 WaveOut extension.  Moreover when setting SPDIF in PowerDVD the Z5500 also correctly picks up if it is DTS or DD.
 
hope this helps
 
 
 

 

[Hybrys]

Heh, this is fun for me, really.  So, no problem at all.
 
What program are you using to 'transcode' these files?  Or, if you downloaded them, PM me a link to one of 'em, please. (Do NOT post it, PM me it.  It can get you in trouble if you post it.).

 

[csaba73]

thanks a lot - will pm you

 

[Hybrys]

And, of course, I can't seem to download it.  I'm ASSUMING the audio is in AC3, and there is a known problem with VLC outputting AC3 5.1 surround via SPDIF.
 
Try this older version of VLC, and see if the same problem exists.
 
http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/0.8.2/win32/vlc-0.8.2-win32.exe

 

[csaba73]

Hybrys - you are right the latest version of VLC has issues with AC3 over SPDIF!!!!  This was the last issue I would have ever thought of.  Guess, I just have to wait for 1.0.6 to come along
 
thansk a lot