[Mansize_tissue]

First of all, please excuse any errors i make in, well..., most of the stuff i come out with; i'm very new to the world of head-fi.

I've recently purchased some DT 770 Pros (80 ohm) for use with both my desktop and laptop, but i want to increase the sound quality. I have a Corda Move on order, which i'm hoping will help a bit, but that's the extent for which my budget caters.

I use my desktop for gaming: it has a Creative X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty sound card, with the front I/O bay. Currently, i have my headphones connected to the headphone-out on the front I/O bay, and my speakers connected directly to the sound card.

I use my laptop for music-listening: it has a lame, onboard sound card which is on its last legs.

I intend to use the Corda Move with both setups: connected to my desktop via line-out (either directly to the sound card where my speakers are currently plugged in or to the 1/4" jack on the front I/O panel, using an adapter- i'm still looking for advice as to what i should use here) and connected to my laptop via USB since i want to make use of the Move's internal DAC because my sound card is on its way out.

At the moment, i use iTunes (please forgive me) as my chosen media player, and i'm very much accustomed to its layout, features and general workings. Because of this, i'm reluctant to move to another media player but it seems i'm going to have to if i want to play .flac files. Which brings me onto my next point.

After searching this forum, i've downloaded EAC and FLAC so, in the future, i can rip CDs to FLAC. However, this leads to problems since i have no media player compatible with them. Basically, i'm asking what there is i can do to improve the sound quality of music i listen to. This will definitely involve using a different media player, i presume, which supports .flac files; however, i have no idea what there is i can do beyond this.

I've downloaded foobar2000, and the iTunes multiplugin in order to route audio through foobar. However, my understanding of what is actually happening here is very limited. Really, though, it doesn't really matter since i'm going to have to ditch iTunes completely anyway, if i want to play .flac files, right? I must warn you though, the prospect of configuring foobar, a program i have next to no experience with, isn't a very good one! So what other media players would be appropriate, support .flac files either natively or with a plugin and are relatively easy to use.

Thank you for your time, and i look forward to your responses.

 

[onvn]

In my experience, DAC's have given me the biggest improvement with regards to source upgrades.. Of course you need an amp with enough power to drive whatever headphones you own already but DAC upgrades do improve sound generously..

Also, I would think the Move DAC is by far better than the X-Fi? I would bypass your soundcard by using the Corda Move thru USB not line-out..

 

[Sir Nobax]

You could always use Apple Lossless instead of FLAC, both are lossless so no quality differences.

And you really have to skip the X-Fi, it has a terrible muddy sound (especially the HP out on the i/o bay), the Move is undoubtly WAYYY better. So use the USB to connect the Move.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by onvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my experience, DAC's have given me the biggest improvement with regards to source upgrades.. Of course you need an amp with enough power to drive whatever headphones you own already but DAC upgrades do improve sound generously.. Also, I would think the Move DAC is by far better than the X-Fi? I would bypass your soundcard by using the Corda Move thru USB not line-out..

Thank you for the reassurance, i was beginning to have second thoughts about buying the Move. I understand its integrated DAC will probably provide better sound quality than that on my X-Fi sound card, but i want EAX and CMSS-3D effects in games.

I really don't know what media player to get, though. I don't really have the time to setup foobar. I've been playing around with Media Monkey all morning, and i think it's quite good. However, it doesn't natively support AAC files, and even if i use a plugin i have to tag the songs myself, which i'm not even going to attempt. I could get MM3 which does support AAC files and the tagging of them, but it's only an alpha at the moment as far as i am aware.

Would Winamp be my best choice, do you think? It supports FLAC and AAC files, right? Also, would i need use kernal streaming or ASIO? I've only just heard of these terms, and i tried setting it up to work using the foobar passthrough in iTunes, but it was unsuccessful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Nobax /img/forum/go_quote.gif You could always use Apple Lossless instead of FLAC, both are lossless so no quality differences.

I've considered this, but then i'd have to use iTunes. Although this would make everything so much easier, wouldn't it be better if i used a media player that allowed me to play bit-perfect audio? This is also a very new term to me, and i don't really understand what it means, but i'm guessing it's achievable with my setup, right?

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Right, i'm going to use Winamp as my media player, since it natively supports AAC and FLAC files. Now, what do i need to do now; are there any plugins you think i should get?

 

[Jigglybootch]

I use Winamp as my media player. I don't use any special plugins (as my sound card has drivers that allow the kmixer to be bypassed) but in your case I would find the ASIO plugin for Winamp.

As far as the DAC goes, I don't see why you couldn't use the Move and the X-fi at the same time. The Move has USB, does it not. You should be able to configure what programs use the DAC for output and those that use the X-fi.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigglybootch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use Winamp as my media player. I don't use any special plugins (as my sound card has drivers that allow the kmixer to be bypassed) but in your case I would find the ASIO plugin for Winamp. As far as the DAC goes, I don't see why you couldn't use the Move and the X-fi at the same time. The Move has USB, does it not. You should be able to configure what programs use the DAC for output and those that use the X-fi.

What will the ASIO plugin do exactly?

In order to get EAX effects and utilise CMSS-3D, i'll need to run the Move from the line out on the sound card. By doing this, it completely bypasses the Move's internal DAC. If i connect it to the desktop via USB, as well as line-out, the internal DAC still won't work but it will use the USB connection as a source of power. It's not really a problem, because i'll only use the X-Fi when gaming; when listening to music the Move will be connected to my laptop via USB.

 

[Sir Nobax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansize_tissue /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've considered this, but then i'd have to use iTunes.

Here you go : LINKY

[edit] Oh, crap. A WinAmp user

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansize_tissue /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although this would make everything so much easier, wouldn't it be better if i used a media player that allowed me to play bit-perfect audio? This is also a very new term to me, and i don't really understand what it means, but i'm guessing it's achievable with my setup, right?

Bit-prefect means: (AFAIK)
Perfect like the source (thus the Flac/MP3/WAV/etc), without any added junk, like Equalizers, soft clipping, 'digital' crossfeed (also know as: X-Fi Headphone setting), upsampling, volume bars and go on. So without any digital processing right into your headphone.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Nobax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bit-prefect means: (AFAIK) Perfect like the source (thus the Flac/MP3/WAV/etc), without any added junk, like Equalizers, soft clipping, 'digital' crossfeed (also know as: X-Fi Headphone setting), upsampling, volume bars and go on. So without any digital processing right into your headphone.

Ah, thank you. That's what i had suspected. How can this be achieved, though, with a setup like mine?

Oh, and what about ASIO and kernel streaming?

 

[Jigglybootch]

ASIO allows you to bypass the kmixer, so Windows won't resample the data stream before it's converted by the sound card.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Mansize_tissue sent me a PM asking about these issues, and here was my response:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansize_tissue Now i'm onto Winamp, which i think i'm going to stick with, but i have no idea what plugins to get or what settings to use once my Corda Move has arrived. I don't really understand completely what kernal streaming or ASIO is, i also don't know how to achieve bit-perfect audio playback. I would be very greatful if you could give me some advice, or maybe point me in the direction of some novice material detailing what these terms mean.

ASIO and KS are two similar ways of getting around the Windows kMixer process, which is avoided due to its inferior resampling algorithms; it resamples to 48 kHz, and the way it performs this resampling is awful.

ASIO was created specifically for audio production, because it can enable lower latencies (thus, faster playback times) than with Microsoft's DirectSound, and it doesn't resample. This is important when doing stuff like overdubbing tracks in a recording setting. True ASIO requires dedicated sound card drivers from the manufacturer. Someone wrote a generic program called ASIO4All, but this is only a hack to simulate ASIO and for music playback purposes it's really no better than Kernel Streaming.

Kernel Streaming was created as a method to bypass kMixer, but it doesn't have the latency-reducing features of ASIO--those won't be important in your case. Also, when KS is enabled, only one sound can be played at a time, and other sounds can interrupt the first one. For example, if you're listening to music and have Windows sounds enabled, emptying the Recycle Bin will stop the music. The benefit is that it doesn't require special drivers, just a plug-in for your particular audio program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansize_tissue I'm guessing i'll need to get some plugins for Winamp; but, again, i have no idea where to start.

http://www.stevenmonks.pwp.blueyonde.../out_ks363.zip

There's a KS plug-in for Winamp. Unzip it and drop the DLL file into your Winamp plug-ins directory.

Also, a few notes on gain staging:

Don't use the player's volume control as it can introduce noise and degrade the sound quality. Keep the Windows Mixer main volume slider at maximum. If you must reduce the volume to avoid clipping, reduce the Wave slider.

 

[Jigglybootch]

I don't know if I'd recommend kernel streaming over ASIO. If he's got a card that supports ASIO, I think he'd be better off with that. ASIO has always worked better for me.

 

[Logistics]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif http://www.stevenmonks.pwp.blueyonde.../out_ks363.zip There's a KS plug-in for Winamp. Unzip it and drop the DLL file into your Winamp plug-ins directory.

Hey, sweet! This really does make a difference. What do people usually do on their SbLive!? I have the kX drivers going and I'm using the rear channel. This plugin does in fact sound different. I'm noticing some details I don't remember. In fact, the low-frequency cut-off seems to have improved as well.

 

[bigshot]

What compression settings have you been using for your music? That is the first thing to look at to improve your quality. You don't necessarily have to go to flac. A higher bitrate AAC or OGG would sound just as good and save you a lot of filesize.

See ya
Steve

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Thank you very much for your reply, infinitesymphony. I guess i should forget about ASIO, then, since it's driver-dependant and i'm just going to be using the USB DAC in the Corda Move. Does this mean kernel streaming is my only option, Jigglybootch?

I've added the plugin you recommended, and the volume control within Winamp no longer works, so i guess the plugin has worked ok. I should have all of the volume controls within Windows full and just use the amplifier to adjust the volume, right? What about if i'm not using the amplifier, what's the best way to adjust the volume? The Wave slider in Windows Volume Control doesn't seem to do anything.

I used to just rip CDs as 128kbps MP3s but now, with some better audio hardware, i'm beginning to notice the flaws. So do you think using EAC and FLAC is a bit overkill, then? I guess it is a bit too much; would AAC or OGG be the next best thing? Also, what bit rates would be appropriate?

Also, will it be possible to get bit-perfect audio with my setup? And, if so, how can this be achieved.

Thanks again for all of your help everyone.