[TaffyGuy]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanG That on its own is quite worthless though. All that counts is that it is one factor in aiding in the swift learning of an instrument at a young age. You can never become a great musician if you start after about age 7 or 8.

well that is rather a load of ********, not to mention completely irrelavant. for one, not having the prospects of becoming a "great musician" is no reason to not enjoy music and playing instruments. don't even be the best you can be, just be whatever floats your ****ing boat. be happy.

Quote:

Originally posted by DanG If you don't even have the patience to learn the acoustic guitar, one of the easiest musical instruments to learn to play proficiently, then you have to analyze the problems you have which clearly outweigh your gift.

don't mind dan, he forgot to take his meds. lay off the kid, eh dan? he's not a hated music major, he's just seeking out other people with perfect pitch to see how special his gift is perhaps, and this is OBVIOUSLY a good place to look for people with pitch, and NOT a good place to look for encouragement, unfortunately.

asianman:
wasn't either of those 2 guys. he was in the gunn jazz band as a soph when i was at paly, but whatever. no worries. have fun, screw around with your guitar, dont, do whatever fits your fancy. i'm suprised at dan. first senseless gore bashing now this.

 

[HD-5000]

Quote:

You can never become a great musician if you start after about age 7 or 8.

sorry to say, but that is ********.

 

[DanG]

Quote:

Originally posted by TaffyGuy well that is rather a load of ********, not to mention completely irrelavant. for one, not having the prospects of becoming a "great musician" is no reason to not enjoy music and playing instruments. don't even be the best you can be, just be whatever floats your ****ing boat. be happy.

I would disagree -- I think it is very relevant. My point is that to enjoy music and play instruments for personal edification, perfect pitch really isn't all that important -- all that's important is being able to make the commitment and focus. Having perfect pitch from the get-go is almost necessary to become more than an amateur and a successful professional -- if you don't need time to get that perfect hearing then you're that much further ahead. It's been shown that as opposed to other arts, music needs to be approached seriously at a very young age if the student is to become a musician capable of going professional. By the way, I'm talking about classical music here -- it doesn't apply to jazz or rock.

Quote:

Taffyguy wrote:don't mind dan, he forgot to take his meds. lay off the kid, eh dan? he's not a hated music major, he's just seeking out other people with perfect pitch to see how special his gift is perhaps, and this is OBVIOUSLY a good place to look for people with pitch, and NOT a good place to look for encouragement, unfortunately.

I'm sorry that I was so rude, it was indeed inexcusable and a very poor judgment. I apologize, secretasianman. Tensions have been running rather high with me considering this day and the other obligations I have.

However, I stand by the specific claims I've made regarding the value and implications of having perfect pitch. What I'm saying is that perfect pitch can get you somewhere a little further if you practice, but nowhere if you don't commit yourself seriously.

One talent that seems to come with perfect pitch which I forgot to mention is the ability to improvise. Many people with natural perfect pitch can hear the flow of music -- however, many cannot. When improvising two specific talents are needed -- first, the ability to sense key shifts and to know which notes sound good when playing in that key; second, to be able to construct an engaging melody to improvise on the fly. A good friend of mine took up guitar maybe five years ago and worked extremely hard at it, as he does with all of his hobbies. He was tone-deaf then and I think he still is now. If I try to jam with him and not play a specific song, I need to tell him in what key we're playing for him to know which notes to play. While he can learn solos quite well and repeat them when jamming, it's tough for him to make one up on the fly. But I somehow am naturally able to do long improv sessions, especially in easier improv styles like blues which involve much repetition and predictable key shifts. Partly I can do this because I can hear what key we're playing in and I can hear which notes sound bad -- but partly I can guess and form in my mind pleasant tunes.

It's probably important to note that it's possible that you've lost some of your creative abilities because you've let the musical abilities stagnate for some time, but I don't know if that's true. If you do find the time to get seriously involved with acoustic guitar, try your hand at a little solo jamming -- don't worry about chords or how it sounds, just see if you can pick at the strings to make cool tunes. Also see if you can pick out tunes on the guitar from songs you already know -- if you have this ability you may well have the potential to be very good at improv.

Quote:

Taffyguy wrote:i'm suprised at dan. first senseless gore bashing now this.

First, Gore-bashing is never senseless. Second, this wasn't just senseless -- it was stupid, rude, and bull-headed. Secretasianman, again, I'm very sorry. I hope you can forgive me. Another thing to note is that I also have a very difficult time focusing and needed my parents to force me to play piano. Somehow I can force myself to play guitar and jazz piano since I can take breaks from standard practice by just jamming out to whatever comes to mind -- and that helps my technique as well. Maybe if you were turned off to classical piano this might keep you involved in guitar or jazz piano, should you try it.

 

[fiddler]

Quote:

You can never become a great musician if you start after about age 7 or 8.

Isaac Stern began piano at the age of 7, violin at age 9. He became one of the best musicians of our century. You do not have to be a child prodigy like Sarah Chang to become a great musician. All it takes is a bit of talent and lots of heart and determination.

 

[DanG]

Fiddler, 9 is still a rather young age and he did start piano at 7. Also, I would contend that Isaac Stern had more than talent, he had genius. He was, after all, my favorite violinist (more than Itzhak Perlman, I think). I guess you are right, though, that doesn't make him a child prodigy. Also, lots of child prodigies burn out -- we don't know if Sarah Chang will be all that well known in ten years -- she might be first violin in a good orchestra but that in itself does not make one a premiere violinist.

Still, the point is that determination and heart is most important of all. My piano teacher (with whom I studied at home) studied piano in Moscow from the age of four. She went to a high school for musicians and then conservatory, spending most of her day practicing the piano from the age of about 12 or 13. Since she was a piano student she didn't need to learn a second instrument (in Russia all musicians needed to be proficient in piano-playing).

She won awards in the Soviet Union and is a tenured professor of piano at Longy School of Music, but she is not a premiere pianist. There are very few truly great musicians, and I've just realized how little this actually has to do with the original thread.

 

[fiddler]

No, Sarah Chang is not as good a musician as Isaac Stern in my opinion also, but you should give her a little more credit than that. I think her debut CD she released at the age of nine speaks for itself. Lots of adults would kill to be able to play like that.
I began playing violin when I was four and a half, and of course, the sooner you start, the easier it is. I'm very fortunate that my parents got me started so early. I was interested in music from a very early age, perhaps even since I was in the womb.. neither of my parents are musicians, but they sure did listen to lots of music. Actually, Isaac Stern was my hero when I was a kid. I had a tape that had a bunch of encores, including Dvorak's Humoresque. I started off with Suzuki (which I feel is okay as long as it's only for the first couple years. I think I would have been better off had I quit a year or two earlier) and there was a Suzuki-fied version of that piece that I played when I was 5 or 6 (I think it was in D major instead of G flat) and when I heard Stern's recording, I sooo wanted to play the double stops that had of course been edited out of the "kid" version. I asked my teacher about it and she gladly wrote me some double stops, which were nowhere near authentic, but I was happy. Anyway, back to Stern.. I really love his recordings when he was young. Unfortunately, he continued to make recordings at a ripe age, after he had quit practising... I have one CD with Schubert Sonatas/Duos, and it's quite frankly awful. My teacher heard him play the Schubert Fantasie (wonderful, but hard-as-hell-to-play, work) live in Moscow. I believe it was his debut in Russia. According to him, it was a truly magical experience. He was very disappointed he heard this rather recent recording.
Anyway, sorry for veering off topic.

 

[secretasianman]

Hey guys, sorry I couldnt respond sooner but I had to reevaluate my priorities (studying, etc.) Not that u guys aren't important , but this will be my last post - I'll still read any responses, however.

DanG - no offense taken, we all have our off-days. I've heard many stories of ppl overcoming natural handicaps to become great musicians (or simply talented amateur musicians, like my ex-violin teacher), etc. It does come down to determination - but it's reassuring to know that acoustic guitar is *relatively* easy to become proficient in. You've made some very good points, and I appreciate that.

I guess the real purpose of this thread was to see whether or not I could expect to become "good" at an instrument if I were to begin at my age (good enough to improvise/compose/perform ~95% of the pieces out there) - specifically the guitar but maybe the piano as well, and whether having perfect pitch would make me more likely to succeed. Again, thanks to all of you for bringing your perspectives and, eventually, emotions to this thread.

 

[TaffyGuy]

Hey asianman, its all about having fun. you have a huge advantage, and if you could easily get a 5 on the music theory AP, then you definately have some inherent skill, which will put you way above probably 95% of you're floormates who i imagine are all trying to learn guitar currently

but don't worry about you're future chances, that's up to you (since you're not a tone deaf clod that is, unfortunately for some (most) dan is right and even with much practice and determination players can only play what they've drilled into their motor skills, and nothing from the heart (or in actuallity, the proverbial "ear") ) so if you enjoy it, hack at it, and you will be glad you did!!

dan: you've completely redeamed yourself here, and i'm glad that a conservative college student can be so humble

. of course, music ability goes hand in hand with smarts, so i see you must have plenty of both. and hell, i can respect you, because it takes balls to be an active right wing as a college student, if not reasonable or based on any sense. haha. i'll be the first to admit that i know very little about polotics (all things considered) and didn't even follow the gore/bush campeigns as i admittedly didn't really give a damn. from what i know or seems obvious to me, it is silly to bash gore despite his more obvious deficiencies, and it is equally pointless to bash bush, because lets face it, we're stuck with him.

oh and fiddler no worries diverting the topic to music. we were really done a long time ago, and its good for me to try and absorb some knowledge of classical music, because shamefully i know very little about it (it's terrible i know) and am very eager to learn. i'm generally impatient with knoledge when it comes to instruments or music or other, but i'm learning that things take time, and i can't be the master of everything all at once

. but if you want to talk to a guy who has a pretty good handle on everything, but mastery in nothing, i'm your man!!!!! lol.

thanks guys, you're all class acts. i've been so aggravated the way some threads have been going (everyone is on edge these days) that its refreshing to have some good ones every once in a while.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by TaffyGuy now if i can only get laid

Perfect pitch will not get you laid.

 

[uchihaitachi]

I too have perfect pitch. It can be a curse. You miss the bigger picture of the music because you overanalyse minute details... But then it does help with theory like transposition and stuff

 

[uchihaitachi]

WHat's cool is music or auditory synesthesia!