[Grossmeister]

Hi all!
I already asked some questions few months earlier, but at that time I had limited choice. Now I can buy from eBay, so again need help.
As you can see from subject all the candidates are under $100.
The main two conditions are noise isolation and comfort. SQ is also important but not as much as these two.
From what I red from this forum I have next information:

1. im716
   +: great SQ, good isolation
   -: uncomfortable (compared with others), high impedance
2. um1
   +: really comfortable (in fact, I couldn't find negative opinions about their comfort), good cable
   -: SQ - something like not bad, but not good also
   ?: isolation
3. se110:
   +: good isolation (like all Shures)
   -: low SQ
   ?: comfort

I found a lot of bad opinions about se110, so maybe I have to exclude them from the start.
I know that I can use Shure tips for im716. So maybe I should buy im716 + Shure olives or gray silicon tips? Main 2 questions are:
1. Which of these phones will provide the best isolation (im716 + Shure tips vs um1 vs se110)? I appreciate if you can range them by this parameter.
2. Which of them will provide the best comfort?

Thanks beforehand.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grossmeister /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi all! I already asked some questions few months earlier, but at that time I had limited choice. Now I can buy from eBay, so again need help. As you can see from subject all the candidates are under $100. The main two conditions are noise isolation and comfort. SQ is also important but not as much as these two. From what I red from this forum I have next information: im716 +: great SQ, good isolation -: uncomfortable (compared with others), high impedance um1 +: really comfortable (in fact, I couldn't find negative opinions about their comfort), good cable -: SQ - something like not bad, but not good also ?: isolation se110: +: good isolation (like all Shures) -: low SQ ?: comfort I found a lot of bad opinions about se110, so maybe I have to exclude them from the start. I know that I can use Shure tips for im716. So maybe I should buy im716 + Shure olives or gray silicon tips? Main 2 questions are: 1. Which of these phones will provide the best isolation (im716 + Shure tips vs um1 vs se110)? I appreciate if you can range them by this parameter. 2. Which of them will provide the best comfort? Thanks beforehand.

Comfort-wise, the UM1s are best. But I sold my UM1s in a week. Way too muddy for my tastes, rolled off highs. And you can only wear them over the ear, which I don't favor.

Isolation is about the same, and I use the Shure soft flex tips (not the olives) and they sound great (better after I get the pod removed, which I am about to do). I had no success getting the olives onto the 716s with the sound tube intact. I read other places that you must remove the sound tube from the olives to get them on the 716s. The olives are too "mushy" for my tastes as a foamie. I favor the comply foam, which is sturdier (but not as long-lasting or washable).

Downside of the 716s is unless you have a very powerful DAP HP out, you NEED an amp. Even with my Sony DAP, you have to turn it way up to get enough volume out of the HP jack (and that's not good). I would not recommend the 716s are everyday phones for anyone with a DAP that needs efficient phones. Once the pod is removed and replaced with 47ohm resistors in-line, the efficiency and SQ shoots way up. There is an entire thread on this topic.

In my view, for everyday use, I'd get neither the 716s or UM1s, opting more for a canalphone like the Denon 551/770 (the latter is $169, however, may be too much money). Since serious isolation (for trains, buses, planes) is important, I would opt for the im616s (no need for an amp) or the Ety er6i, both real IEMs that isolate better than any canalphones.

Can't speak for Shure or UE phones, since I have never owned them.

 

[Grossmeister]

Hmm... I red in some threads about olives and im716 that there is no problem to get olives on im716, maybe I missed something. I remember that it is necessary to remove olives internal tube to get them on UE but not on im716.
I have Apacer AU524, it has 10 mW output per channel, will it be enough? But, anyway, it is not a problem for me to do the podectomy. For example, now I use this player with AKG K518 and in subway I put volume at 22-24 from 32, if the place is more quite I use 14-16, also for EP-630 it was 14-16 and 8-10.
I red about Denon phones but they will not provide good isolation. And im616=er6, right?

About SQ. I love my K518 and if I can get something the same I will be happy.

And one more question, a little bit out of the scope: I like EP-630 small tips, can I expect the same level of comfort from small olives or Shure gray silicon tips, will they be the same size?

 

[scompton]

I own both the UM1 and the im716. If I had to pick one to own, I'd pick the UM1 because of the comfort. I like the SQ of the im716 better, but there are times that I can't wear them, like during allergy season. Since I use IEMs only in noisy environments, like public transportation and airplanes, the SQ difference is not as important.

Unlike tstarn06, I only wear IEMs with the cord over my ear because it really cuts down on microphonics. I do this even with the im716 which, since it is not designed to do it, is a little awkward.

For isolation, the im716 is better because it goes farther in your ear. I use the black olive foam tips. Foam tips isolate much better than single flange silicone tips. The medium and large Shure foam tips fit on the im716. I've never been able to get the small tips on. Maybe if I could, they'd be more comfortable.

The isolation is not bad with the UM1. It's adequate in all but the noisiest environments. With both, I can hear loud trucks driving by on the street. I hear people talking loudly more often with the UM1 than the im716.

I use both directly out of my iPod. I listen at very low levels. With the UM1, volume is less than 1/4. With the im716, the volume is less then 1/2. I don't feel the need for an amp for either. I own 3 portable amps (iBasso T1, OHA-REP, XM4). They're all to much for the UM1. Volume goes from no sound to too loud with nothing in between. The im716 sounds marginally better with the XM4, but only marginally, and it really cuts down on what I consider portablity.

 

[Grossmeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif The medium and large Shure foam tips fit on the im716. I've never been able to get the small tips on. Maybe if I could, they'd be more comfortable.

This means that Shure produce olives with different holes for same phones? Stupid situation.
Also, did you try to put olives on um1? Maybe it can improve noise isolation.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grossmeister /img/forum/go_quote.gif This means that Shure produce olives with different holes for same phones? Stupid situation. Also, did you try to put olives on um1? Maybe it can improve noise isolation.

No, all of the olives have the same size hole. The problem is the im716. It's nozzle is bigger than the Shure's nozzle, so it takes some effort and stretching to get the olives on. The small olives are so small that I end up pinching them too much to get them over the im716 nozzle. There's probably some way to get them on, I just haven't been able to do it.

The UM1 has the same size nozzle as the Shures, so the olives fit fine.

Actually, I don't think the olives will fit on the SE110. The E2c, the SE110's predecessor, had a bigger nozzle, like most dynamic driver IEMs. I don't know what tips are available for it.

 

[Jon118]

Not to complicate things but the Klipsch Cutom-1 seems like it might be a good compromise. The bi-flange tips go fairly deep, but not as deep as the iM716s and are much more comfortable, but they still isolate well, and sound pretty good, maybe a little better than the UM1s from what I've heard about them.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I own both the UM1 and the im716. If I had to pick one to own, I'd pick the UM1 because of the comfort. I like the SQ of the im716 better, but there are times that I can't wear them, like during allergy season. Since I use IEMs only in noisy environments, like public transportation and airplanes, the SQ difference is not as important. Unlike tstarn06, I only wear IEMs with the cord over my ear because it really cuts down on microphonics. I do this even with the im716 which, since it is not designed to do it, is a little awkward. For isolation, the im716 is better because it goes farther in your ear. I use the black olive foam tips. Foam tips isolate much better than single flange silicone tips. The medium and large Shure foam tips fit on the im716. I've never been able to get the small tips on. Maybe if I could, they'd be more comfortable. The isolation is not bad with the UM1. It's adequate in all but the noisiest environments. With both, I can hear loud trucks driving by on the street. I hear people talking loudly more often with the UM1 than the im716. I use both directly out of my iPod. I listen at very low levels. With the UM1, volume is less than 1/4. With the im716, the volume is less then 1/2. I don't feel the need for an amp for either. I own 3 portable amps (iBasso T1, OHA-REP, XM4). They're all to much for the UM1. Volume goes from no sound to too loud with nothing in between. The im716 sounds marginally better with the XM4, but only marginally, and it really cuts down on what I consider portablity.

Maybe it's just the different amps, but when I use the 716s with the MiniboxE+ (bass boost on) they really improve immensely. But I agree, I hate carrying an amp around (which is why the SA6s are the IEMs I use 95 percent of the time).

I can't imagine using the 716s with any of my DAPs ampless because while I don't blast the sound, I could not hear the music at my listening levels.

 

[gp_hebert]

Having owned both, I prefer the iM716 sound-wize to the E500, which is Shure high-end IEM and costs about 250$ more than the SE110. I haven't heard the SE110 nor the UM1, but this is just to put things in perspective.

As for the iM716 not being loud enough, I did the podectomy and added 33 ohms resistances and I get more than enough volume straight from an iPod Nano which is far from a powerful source. Sure, it sounds way better out of a dedicated home amp, but it makes a very decent portable rig.

 

[shasty]

Although im716's are incredible iems, you won't enjoy them fully if you don't have a dedicated amp or a powerful dap.
Also, since comfort is a priority for you, UM1's would fit nice, but they do have noticeably inferior SQ than im716s.

I haven't tried them but maybe you should look in to d-jays

 

[Grossmeister]

Thanks for so many responses!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I don't think the olives will fit on the SE110. The E2c, the SE110's predecessor, had a bigger nozzle, like most dynamic driver IEMs. I don't know what tips are available for it.

Thanks, I missed that. Also, as I red here SQ is not good, so I should exclude them from my current choice list. Maybe in time I should go for SE310 but currently I don't want to pay more than $100.
So, at this point I have to choose between im716 and um1.

About amplifier for im716 - I think it is non-portable solution, but as I understood podectomy can solve this problem.

Now the main question is (it's about im716): which tips can I use (I mean, in terms of size)? As I said I own EP-630 and I can use only small tips, medium tips I even couldn't plug into my ears.
As I know, default im716 tri-flanges can be compared with creative's medium tips. What I think I can use: Comply short tips, Shure small olives, Shure small gray silicon, and just yesterday I found Etymotic BabyBlues.
What can you suggest?

And about SQ and isolation. Many people say that with Shure olives im716 sounds not so clear as with native tri-flanges, also, as you say im716 provide better isolation then um1 and I think it is also can be because of different tips and comply does not provide as good seal as tri-flanges does, and this leads to better comfort and worse isolation. What do you think, am I right?

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't imagine using the 716s with any of my DAPs ampless because while I don't blast the sound, I could not hear the music at my listening levels.

I'm not sure what you mean by your listening levels. I get the same SPL level out of my iPod with my UM1 and im716. I just have to turn it up for the im716. Volume setting is unimportant, as long as it is not high enough to start clipping.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Grossmeister /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now the main question is (it's about im716): which tips can I use (I mean, in terms of size)? As I said I own EP-630 and I can use only small tips, medium tips I even couldn't plug into my ears. As I know, default im716 tri-flanges can be compared with creative's medium tips. What I think I can use: Comply short tips, Shure small olives, Shure small gray silicon, and just yesterday I found Etymotic BabyBlues. What can you suggest?

The tri-flanges were too uncomfortable for me to wear. I've read about cutting off the third, large flange, turning them into bi-flanges, but I've never tried it. I was able to get comply tips on the im716, but I destroyed them getting them off. As I stated before, I never got the small Shure olives on, but I didn't try all that hard. I've never tried the small silicone tips, but they should go on with some effort. I've never tryied the BabyBlues, so I can't help you there.

With the small Shure olives, what's needed is some way to stretch the tube so it fits over the im716's nozzle.

 

[Grossmeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was able to get comply tips on the im716, but I destroyed them getting them off.

And what was the result? How did this change im716? As I think if you put Comply tips on im716 3 things must change:
- better comfort (like um1);
- worse isolation (near to um1);
- worse SQ (again near to um1).
Or this is not true?

Now I'm trying to find Etymotic blue tri-flanges (er4-14sm) for a good price. I red here that people (not many) who already tried these tips are really happy with them.

P.S. Maybe, finally I'll buy both of them - one for comfort and one for SQ.

 

[scompton]

The UM1 is not more comfortable because of the tips, they're more comfortable because they don't go in your ear as far as the im716.

With the comply tips, the im716 was more comfortable because the tip has a smaller diameter. The sound was essentially the same as with the olives. I didn't wear them in a noisy environment, so I don't know about isolation, but my bet is that it would be comparable to the olives.

I think the the SQ of the UM1 is not up to the im716, not because of the tips, but because of the SQ of the drivers, and possible because of the geometry of the IEM (right angle bend in the sound path).

Quote:

P.S. Maybe, finally I'll buy both of them - one for comfort and one for SQ.

I wouldn't want to give up either. I had the Shure E3c for a couple of years. When it died I bought the UM1 and was satisfied. I bought the im716 when I saw one used, cheap and I'm very happy with it. I've also tried (and sold) CX300, JBL 220, and Super.fi 3.

 

[Grossmeister]

Thanks for help! You made a lot of questions clear.
Now I have a decision, just I don't know what I'll buy first. Also I like that Comply tips can be used with im716.

Just want to understand one more thing: you say
Quote:

The UM1 is not more comfortable because of the tips, they're more comfortable because they don't go in your ear as far as the im716.

How it can be for the same tips (for example, Comply)? Sorry, I'm not so much expirienced with earphones, just, for example, I can't push small EP-630 with tips deeper than they (tips) allow.