[simlesuperlol]

Hi guys, I need help choosing a pair of over-ear headphones, mostly for gaming, but also for metal, rock and grunge listening.

 

After a lot of research, I can't come to a satisfying conclusion about which headphone I should buy. The problem mainly takes its origin in the price point of the headphones.

 

I'm mainly going to use the headphones for first person shooter gaming so sound stage is probably the main buying point. The only thing is, I would prefer buying a better-rounded headphone for "future-proofness". Bass isn't a major selling point for me, but I'd still like it to be balanced in comparison with other frequencies. Comfort is quite important since I wear headphones for long sessions (maybe 5 hours+).

 

My current setup doesn't have a dedicated amp and dac and I don't want to buy one immediately, but it would be something I'm willing to invest in in a couple of months. If you think the sound signature of the future amp and dac has a significant impact, I’ll probably buy an Objective2 + ODAC combo from JDS Labs since these seem to have a minimal impact on the sound. I don’t plan to buy multiple desk amps and dacs so a neutral one seems to be the best choice if I want to change headphones or have multiple pairs, please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Even without an amp, I shouldn't have trouble driving headphones to about 300 ohms.

 

Now I’ve read a fair bit of reviews, threads and guides in the last few weeks to get a better understanding of the headphones that might be appealing to me. These are the ones I've encountered that would be interesting with their price points and their characteristics (from my understanding, please feel free to correct me). If you have other suggestions please contribute.

 

Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X - CAD 160$

These seem to have the best characteristics for gaming with their excellent sound stage and positional accuracy, but the bass seems to be overly anemic. The main aspect of these headphones that "turn me off" is the physical design: the plastic construction seems weak and the 3d wing support system seems misadapted to people with medium/small heads which is what I have. The earcups not pivoting would probably annoy me. The elastic mod doesn't really do it for me since it would pull on my hair. I also use the headband from my headphones to keep my hair back and away from my face so I don't think this would work for me.

 

AKG K702 – CAD 320/410$ (220 USD on amazon.com…won’t ship to Canada :’( )

This is probably my first choice but it is the most expensive headphone on this list…by a lot. From what I’ve read the frequency response fits me well (bass isn’t too strong mids and highs are crystal clear) and the soudstage is amazing. I also like the design and detachable cable. If you think this is the best for the job and will last a long while, I probably would shell out the bills. To note: I found it shipped for 320$ on Ebay (specific link: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AKG-K702-Headphones-Black-Brand-New-Sealed-FREE-SHIPPING-/171367747928?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item27e6505158&_uhb=1 ) which is a us import. Or I could buy it from a reputable store at 410$...yeah, which one would you go with if you recommend this one?

 

Beyerdynamic 990 pro – CAD 160$

Bass might be too strong and the mids too recessed for gaming. Also read that the treble has a tendency to be sibilant which is something I notice easily and annoys me. If I’m worrying for nothing and this isn’t the case or if EQ helps with this, please enlighten me. The price is the main attraction for this headphone and, all around, it seems quite good. Well rated on Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide. I also like the aesthetics and the design which seems comfortable (I don’t really mind strong clamping force).

 

Sennheiser HD558/HD598 - CAD 170$ / CAD 260$

Seems like these are pretty similar. Seems like they have good but not amazing soundstage, with the 598s edging the 558 by a bit (but does it justify 100$ more?). Frequency response looks very similar to the k702 until treble territory, which is good (I think). Don’t really care for the design, looks comfortable; dislike the colors of the 598.

 

With this info, which one would you recommend considering the qualities of each headphone and the price for which it would be available? Thank you greatly.

 

Simon

 

[cel4145]

If soundstage is important for FPS, then best to have a soundcard that has virtual surround for headphones. If you already have such a soundcard, then a DAC with optical input is best. With an optical DAC, you can use the digital surround processing features of your soundcard. With a USB DAC, the soundcard is completely bypassed.

Since Canadian headphone pricing is so meh (sorry dude), look into the Soundmagic HP200. They are an excellent Chinese made brand that is available from international sellers, so you get the same pricing as everyone else who likes them

Here are some reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634186/review-soundmagic-hp200-an-excellent-open-back-headphone
http://www.head-fi.org/products/soundmagic-hp200/reviews/10169
http://noblehifi.blogspot.com/2013/05/soundmagic-hp200-review.html

Someone in the Chinese Asian brand thread could probably suggest where to order them from: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs

 

[simlesuperlol]

Thanks for the suggestion, didn't even hear about those before and they seem well esteemed. They are unavailable in Canada though (http://www.head-fi.org/t/634186/review-soundmagic-hp200-an-excellent-open-back-headphone/15#post_8975035) and I'm not really willing to go through a lot of trouble to get those :/
 
I don't have a sound card since I don't really like the tricks played by virtual surround and the soundblaster chip on my mobo is supposed to drive headphones up to 300 ohms without a problem. I'll probalby go with the K702, I'm kind of drooling over them now since almost all I read about them is positive.
 
I'll probably buy and amp a few months down the line tough. Seems like it really makes the K702 shine.
 
Now I don't know much about amps and dacs, but is it recommended to get an all-in-one solution as in an amp/dac combo or is it better to get stand alone amps and dacs to be able to change at a time? Keep in mind I'll want a long lasting solution with neutrality in mind.
 
EDIT: grammar

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I don't have a sound card since I don't really like the tricks played by virtual surround and the soundblaster chip on my mobo is supposed to drive headphones up to 300 ohms without a problem. I'll probalby go with the K702, I'm kind of drooling over them now since almost all I read about them is positive.

 
Your on board sound might be compatible with Dolby Headphone - my MSI mobo is. If not, you can try Razer Surround (download is still free I think).

 

[kraken2109]

If you're looking at the AKG K702 and Senn 558/598, you should definitely consider the AKG K612 pro.

 

[simlesuperlol]

   
Your on board sound might be compatible with Dolby Headphone - my MSI mobo is. If not, you can try Razer Surround (download is still free I think).

Yeah, I think it is, but as I said, I don't really need virtual surround. I prefer plain old stereo

  If you're looking at the AKG K702 and Senn 558/598, you should definitely consider the AKG K612 pro.

Yes, I read about them and they look like great headphones too, but I actually just ordered a pair of K702. I hope that it will fit me well

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Yeah, I think it is, but as I said, I don't really need virtual surround. I prefer plain old stereo
 

 
I only brought that up because you mentioned your motherboard as being used to drive headphones, and from there concluded that you're using it primarily for gaming. A gaming motherboard's audio circuit might be good enough for games, but when it comes to the dynamics in music (and also because you're critically listening, hopefully, instead of aiming a gun with a mouse and such, or browsing the web), it tends to still fall behind separate DACs and amps, and of course I assumed that anyone buying such a motherboard would probably be using it for games. Of course, it does have its advantages - you get to have the audio circuit on the same plane as the motherboard, so regardless of whether your fans are in front of the chassis or above/below the mobo and in some cases blowing up/down (in Bitfenix SFF cases) directly to the GPU, there's no discrete soundcard getting in the way of the airflow, and on top of the DSP, some brands' engineers decided to just throw in a headphone driver op-amp and widen the range of headphones that their mobo can drive directly.
 
In any case if your priority is stereo music playback then the ODAC-O2 is hard to beat for the price. It does lack the grunt that some bigger amps have when driving certain headphones, so I'd caution against getting any AKG x7xx headphones. For example, my HD600 sounds the same off my Cantate.2 and the Burson Soloist, but throw the K701/2 and Q701 at both amps, and it's barely better than the HD600 on the Cantate, but absolutely thrashes it with the Soloist. The K701 just comes alive with the current off that amp that the dynamics are at the same level as a Grado SR325 on a decent amp (maybe even better), but with all the imaging of the AKG. That said, that Soloist is about double the price of the Cantate when it came out, but it's surprising how much better it does. I tried it on the O2 as well and the Cantate (on high gain) was much better at driving it - level matched without distortion on the O2 it was even, but the Cantate can go louder past the point where there's audible distortion on the O2, at which point not only is the Cantate louder but you get to hear the percussion a lot better (and with more verve). It wasn't so much that the amp changed in frequency response (this amp is very linear like the O2, just goes up higher), but note that ears don't have an absolutely flat response (natural bias for midrange frequencies - that's why some like what they call a "V" sound).
 
So basically if it had been for games, the mobo would be good enough even for the x7xx cans, although the AT AD700 would be considerably cheaper than that including replacement earpads, especially if used for with long gaming sessions. For music though I'd get the O2+ODAC, but just a fair bit of warning, the x7xx cans' prices seem great but the thing is they'll set you back as much when you notice the sound is a little off or lacking energy with most amps (or if you don't notice it with your own gear, one meet attendance with other gear right there to try with it might provide the opportunity). At the very least get the Q701 - it's around the same price, maybe cheaper online, and has a little bit more bass response (AFAIK it's likely from how the Q logo essentially seals part of the enclosure), so at the very least what you hear on its own might not be as susceptible to feeling like the cans need more from the amp.

 

[Solrighal]

Hi Simon. I don't play games so I can't help you with that aspect but your stated logic regarding the O2 amp is sound and exactly the same as my own rationale. My O2 allows me to hear the tone of each of my headphones without any undue colouration from the amp.

Good luck.

 

[simlesuperlol]

 
So basically if it had been for games, the mobo would be good enough even for the x7xx cans, although the AT AD700 would be considerably cheaper than that including replacement earpads, especially if used for with long gaming sessions. For music though I'd get the O2+ODAC, but just a fair bit of warning, the x7xx cans' prices seem great but the thing is they'll set you back as much when you notice the sound is a little off or lacking energy with most amps (or if you don't notice it with your own gear, one meet attendance with other gear right there to try with it might provide the opportunity). At the very least get the Q701 - it's around the same price, maybe cheaper online, and has a little bit more bass response (AFAIK it's likely from how the Q logo essentially seals part of the enclosure), so at the very least what you hear on its own might not be as susceptible to feeling like the cans need more from the amp.

Thank you for your very thorough input, much appreciated! As I said, I wanted a long-lasting solution both for games and music, which is why I went ahead and got the K702s. For games only though, I agree that the ad700s would've been a better bang for the buck.
 
I'm happy that you think the O2+ODac combo would be a fine solution since the other two amp you mentioned are a bit out of my price range for the moment. Coming from HD428s though, I'm pretty sure this solution will blow my socks off. Thanks again and Cheers!
 

Hi Simon. I don't play games so I can't help you with that aspect but your stated logic regarding the O2 amp is sound and exactly the same as my own rationale. My O2 allows me to hear the tone of each of my headphones without any undue colouration from the amp.

Good luck.

Thank you for your experienced opinion, much appreciated! Do you have only the O2, an O2 and an external Dac or an all in one solution? Would you have an option to recommend regarding a dac to go with the O2? As I said, I'm thinking of getting the combo since it's highly regarded and I have limited desk space.

 

[Solrighal]

Hi again. I use an ODAC also. They are both excellent devices. I bought them from Walter at Head'n'Hifi and really can't fault the units and the company were a pleasure to deal with. Here's my ones...

http://www.headnhifi.com/amplifiers/desktop-headphone-amplifiers/O2-desktop-amplifier

http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/odac-xl-version

 

[Solrighal]

Here's a couple of shots of my own ones to show how they look in situ, with a Mac mini in one & an AA battery in another for scale.

If you want any more info feel free to ask.

 

[simlesuperlol]

Here's a couple of shots of my own ones to show how they look in situ, with a Mac mini in one & an AA battery in another for scale.

If you want any more info feel free to ask.
 

Wow, those are really beautiful and they don't seem to take up much space! I do have a couple of questions though
 
Since you have Q701s and since they have a similar sound signature to the K702, how would you describe the sound coming out of this combination?
 
Do you think it's worth it to get RCA line outputs on the DAC (I'm looking at the JDS labs O2+ODAC and its a 17$ option on the custom system, which is what I would be willing to get for the 1/4 inch jack and the rear mounted power jack) As I said, I'm not that knowledgeable in audiophile gear so I don't really understand what the DAC output option really is for on the all-in-one solution. Is it for driving another amp with it or am I missing something? And is the output type just for compatibility's sake or does it change the signal's quality? (English isn't my first language and I'll admit that the explanations for the options found here http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/  under "DAC Line Output" which is under "Customize" aren't 100% clear to me)
 
Finally, would you prefer an all-in-one solution or a separate solution like you have? If you can use the DAC from the combo version to drive another amp, getting that would actually be cheaper for me (shipped).
 
Thanks a lot for your help and your explanations!

 

[simlesuperlol]

Interesting, so O2 it'll beI think!
Even though it's not the best solution, do you think some EQ to reduce the treble response on your Q701 would make them more enjoyable to listen to?
 
Ah I see now for the DAC outputs, I'll probably get the RCA version in case I want to uprade the setup down the line!
 
As for gain levels, JDS Labs's site states: "When using O2 with a 2VRMS DAC, such as O2+ODAC, we recommend Medium Gain (1.0x, 3.5x)"
 
....Not really sure what VRMS means though :/
 
And with those settings your getting an unamplified signal at 1x right? And would those gain levels (3x) be enough to drive 600ohm headphones (looking at you, beyerdynamic)

 

[Solrighal]

As far as the different manufacturers are concerned I really can't say if one is better than the other as I have no experience of either.

3x might not be enough for a 600Ohm can but I doubt it.

To be honest I'm not the most knowledgeable about the technicalities - you'd be better going here...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616331/o2-amp-odac/3200_40#post_10723349

 

[simlesuperlol]

As far as the different manufacturers are concerned I really can't say if one is better than the other as I have no experience of either.

3x might not be enough for a 600Ohm can but I doubt it.

To be honest I'm not the most knowledgeable about the technicalities - you'd be better going here...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616331/o2-amp-odac/3200_40#post_10723349

Allright, well thank you for your input, much appreciated! I'll head on to that thread