[JaGWiRE]

Not sure if I'm the only one whos mentioned this, but you don't have to necessarily return yours. If you want to support whoever you bought it from, and give these headphones and extended period to try out, I'de say you can safely do that, and if you don't like them, resell them in the headphone sales forum pretty easily considering that they are gs-1000's and everybody seems to be looking for a pair

.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE Not sure if I'm the only one whos mentioned this, but you don't have to necessarily return yours. If you want to support whoever you bought it from, and give these headphones and extended period to try out, I'de say you can safely do that, and if you don't like them, resell them in the headphone sales forum pretty easily considering that they are gs-1000's and everybody seems to be looking for a pair .

But who's going to buy them used right now at full price when you can just buy them new from Todd and soon at other places. Unless you want to sell to someone overseas.

 

[Ruppin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE Not sure if I'm the only one whos mentioned this, but you don't have to necessarily return yours. If you want to support whoever you bought it from, and give these headphones and extended period to try out, I'de say you can safely do that, and if you don't like them, resell them in the headphone sales forum pretty easily considering that they are gs-1000's and everybody seems to be looking for a pair .

You are not the only one to mention it, but it seems like a good time to mention it again. I'd also like to add something.

Some posts on these forums suggest that the 30 day return is from Grado. It is not. The thirty day return is from the individual retailer.

So, buying with a 30 day return is not the same as a free demo. If the phones are returned, they have to be re-sold as used. It would be just common courtesy to do a little research, talk to the seller, and otherwise make sure that you really want the phones before you order them. It is not nice to order two pairs, knowing you will return one.

Finally, remember that if you return one or more pairs over time, the retailer might decide that the risk of selling to you, outweighs any reward. The retailer would be well within his rights to do that. Thinking and asking before you buy is the way to go.

 

[JaGWiRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin You are not the only one to mention it, but it seems like a good time to mention it again. I'd also like to add something. Some posts on these forums suggest that the 30 day return is from Grado. It is not. The thirty day return is from the individual retailer. So, buying with a 30 day return is not the same as a free demo. If the phones are returned, they have to be re-sold as used. It would be just common courtesy to do a little research, talk to the seller, and otherwise make sure that you really want the phones before you order them. It is not nice to order two pairs, knowing you will return one. Finally, remember that if you return one or more pairs over time, the retailer might decide that the risk of selling to you, outweighs any reward. The retailer would be well within his rights to do that. Thinking and asking before you buy is the way to go.

I only mentioned it because headroom and other companies that generally sell grado imho are not large companies that can take 10-20% returns of whatever they sell, espically on expensive headphones like this. I have no problem buying something as a demo from bestbuy, but that is because bestbuy is not lusting for my money, and they are easily okay with me returning even $100,000 in merchandise. Smaller retailers take a big hit, and considering that headroom and many great online audio stores don't even take a restocking fee, they are taking a really big loss. I think it'de be wiser to resell in the headphone section and take maybe $50-100 hit (as these headphones are so damn popular) then to kill somebodies business.

 

[Ruppin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE I only mentioned it because headroom and other companies that generally sell grado imho are not large companies that can take 10-20% returns of whatever they sell, espically on expensive headphones like this. I have no problem buying something as a demo from bestbuy, but that is because bestbuy is not lusting for my money, and they are easily okay with me returning even $100,000 in merchandise. Smaller retailers take a big hit, and considering that headroom and many great online audio stores don't even take a restocking fee, they are taking a really big loss. I think it'de be wiser to resell in the headphone section and take maybe $50-100 hit (as these headphones are so damn popular) then to kill somebodies business.

A little courtesy goes a long way. But also remember that on-line retailers can would have trouble competing without an unconditional money back guarantee. The one thing bricks and mortar dealers have to offer is the ability to try before you buy. If on-line sellers can't honor their offers, they shouldn't make those offers, but the buyer doesn't neet to abuse the policy either. If I had to own a piece of either Best Buy or HeadRoom, I'd pick Headroom.

No tears for either, but both Todd and Headroom provide generally low prices (except on Grado which isn't their decision), good service, and good advice. I wouldn't have a problem returning an item I didn't like (that was part of the deal), but if I did it with more items than I kept, I'd understand if they didn't want me as a customer.

I wouldn't buy three and return two with Best Buy either.

 

[mrarroyo]

I agree on not being callous and ordering something and returning them with a cavalier attitude. In my case I have loved every Grado I have ever owned (SR-125, RS-2, and RS-1). So when I ordered the GS1000 I had great expectation of them becoming my favorite can and selling my RS-1 in the for sale forums.

Unfortunately that has not been the case. I do not care much for the GS1000 since it has not midrange (IMO). I have decided to keep them through Monday evening to see if 265 hours of burn in bring it out. I can tell you that as of last night (9 days of burn in it was still MIA).

Perhaps I will do a 24 hour posting to see if a foreign buyer would be interested. That way they get a price break and I do not have to return to TTVJ and have him absorb the return cost. Of course the international buyer would not have a warranty to fall back on.

 

[carlflow]

Over the past 10 years I have owned all of the Grado except the RS-2. I had two pairs of the RS-1 me and the wife watched are DVD's with. Then I bought the PS-1's and the HF-1 and sold all of the others. So when I seen the GS-1000 where coming out I had to have a pair. I though the PS-1 would all way's be on top for Grado. I find that I like the GS-1 as mush as the PS-1 The PS-1 bass in harder hitting but they are heavy after long listing. Where the GS-1's are light as a feather. The sound stage is bigger in GS. Try using Todd's flat pad's on the GS-1's and compare them then. I found out that the bass hit just as hard as the PS-1. But with a smaller sound stage. You said it you first post we knew who wouldn't like them they never liked Grado. I for one love most all there headphones. I'm lucky I have a lot of different Headphones to use. If I could only have one. It would be the GS-1 for now. Electrostatic I couldn't live with just one have to have them all. lol

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo I agree on not being callous and ordering something and returning them with a cavalier attitude. In my case I have loved every Grado I have ever owned (SR-125, RS-2, and RS-1). So when I ordered the GS1000 I had great expectation of them becoming my favorite can and selling my RS-1 in the for sale forums. Unfortunately that has not been the case. I do not care much for the GS1000 since it has not midrange (IMO). I have decided to keep them through Monday evening to see if 265 hours of burn in bring it out. I can tell you that as of last night (9 days of burn in it was still MIA). Perhaps I will do a 24 hour posting to see if a foreign buyer would be interested. That way they get a price break and I do not have to return to TTVJ and have him absorb the return cost. Of course the international buyer would not have a warranty to fall back on.

I was comparing my not quite burned in GS-1000 to my RS-1 and I think what you are experiencing unless you got a bad pair is an integrated midrange. The RS-1 has a forward midrange which might be what your used to. The GS-1000 definately has a midrange that is smooth and unintrusive, it just doesn't stick out like it does with the RS-1 (or apears to anyway to me).

SQ wize, I'm on the fense - the RS-1 has great detail and I like it's presentation although it has 2 weaknesses that did bother me. One things was the ocassional high note that could kinda make you wince, another is the small soundstage which wouldn't bother me except for listening to Symphony's. All in all, the RS-1 seemed warmer and actually engaged me a little more.

This makes it hard for people that can only keep one. I want to sell one of the two, but I don't know if I can give up the RS-1, we'll see - it really is a great phone and in some ways betters the GS-1000, but overall the GS-1000 just seems to be more elegant in the sound. It's a more balanced phone that moves towards a more neutral, less agressive sound, and to me more refined. It needs more power to control the bass than the RS-1.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 I was comparing my not quite burned in GS-1000 to my RS-1 and I think what you are experiencing unless you got a bad pair is an integrated midrange. The RS-1 has a forward midrange which might be what your used to. The GS-1000 definately has a midrange that is smooth and unintrusive, it just doesn't stick out like it does with the RS-1 (or apears to anyway to me). SQ wize, I'm on the fense - the RS-1 has great detail and I like it's presentation although it has 2 weaknesses that did bother me. One things was the ocassional high note that could kinda make you wince, another is the small soundstage which wouldn't bother me except for listening to Symphony's. All in all, the RS-1 seemed warmer and actually engaged me a little more. This makes it hard for people that can only keep one. I want to sell one of the two, but I don't know if I can give up the RS-1, we'll see - it really is a great phone and in some ways betters the GS-1000, but overall the GS-1000 just seems to be more elegant in the sound. It's a more balanced phone that moves towards a more neutral, less agressive sound, and to me more refined. It needs more power to control the bass than the RS-1.

It definately needs more power. The GS1000 with the RA-1 seems a little bloated and did not handle the drums as well as the RS-1 with the RA-1. Now when I switched to the GS-1 amp, the drums are very tight and controlled, the bass is deep and textured and never seems too bassy on any of my music.

As far a the mids, I did not like the RS-1 with flats because it didn't have the magic mids and twangy electric guitar that it does with the bowls. The GS1000 seems to still have the magic mids. When I did do one direct comparison with the RS-1 (while I still had them), the RS-1 seemed shouty and too strong in the mids. I decide at this point it was best to just focus on how I like the GS1000 and not do any more direct comparisons.

All the music that sounded bad on the hd650 like Jane's Addition, The Pixies, Smashing Pumkins, Led Zeppelin sounded great on the RS-1 and it stills sounds great on the GS1000. The GS1000 also makes my slower stuff like Jeff Buckley, Cat Stevens, David Bowie, the Smiths sound even better than I remember it on the RS-1.

Maybe I should have hung onto the RS-1 longer and done more direct comparisons but as I've said, I still have no regrets selling it. I guess I'll stop posting now because I think I've basically repeated everything I've said before. I just haven't changed my mind about anything.

Edit: One last thing, the silibance problem seems to have gotten better. I'm still hearing it but only on a few songs. The other day, it seemed to happen on a lot more stuff. I currently burn them in all day and give them a break at night. Just random iTunes at a decent volume.

 

[iamdone]

I just wanted to add another one last thing. I just got through listening to my ue-10 and the GS1000 on the same song "The Queen is Dead" by the Smiths. I listened to the ue-10 first and it sounded like mostly vocals with the rest of the music in the background. The music lacked life and rhythm. It sounded very technical. This has always been the problem with the ue10.

When I switched to the GS1000, the mids actually sounded shouty like when I went from the GS1000 to the RS-1. So the GS1000 does have mids, it's just not as strong as the RS-1 but a lot stronger that a neutral headphone. The bass guitar was back and the drums had a nice rhythm. It sounded like a band playing. The soundstage got bigger but surprising, the ue-10 have pretty good sounstage in my system.

Both headphone had silibance when I tried some of the songs that bring this out. It could still be the recording or maybe it's my DAC. I hope it's not the DAC because I thought I'm through spending money and I have a DAC that can be easily moddified by a couple of places. Anyway, the silibance is not the GS1000's fault.

Also, the ue-10 are supposed to be very close to flat and Headroom gives them a "5" vs the "3.5" for the GS1000. The ue-10 are $900 plus about $50 for impressions and the GS1000 is $995 so they are very close in price so you can't really factor a real price difference into that rating. For me a flat neutral headphone is just that, neutral. It's not bad but it's nothing to get excitied about. The GS1000 are anything but neutral and that's how I like. For me, they still have the John Grado house sound.

Ok, now I'm done.

 

[Kieran Comito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I just wanted to add another one last thing. I just got through listening to my ue-10 and the GS1000 on the same song "The Queen is Dead" by the Smiths. I listened to the ue-10 first and it sounded like mostly vocals with the rest of the music in the background. The music lacked life and rhythm. It sounded very technical. This has always been the problem with the ue10. When I switched to the GS1000, the mids actually sounded shouty like when I went from the GS1000 to the RS-1. So the GS1000 does have mids, it's just not as strong as the RS-1 but a lot stronger that a neutral headphone. The bass guitar was back and the drums had a nice rhythm. It sounded like a band playing. The soundstage got bigger but surprising, the ue-10 have pretty good sounstage in my system. Both headphone had silibance when I tried some of the songs that bring this out. It could still be the recording or maybe it's my DAC. I hope it's not the DAC because I thought I'm through spending money and I have a DAC that can be easily moddified by a couple of places. Anyway, the silibance is not the GS1000's fault. Also, the ue-10 are supposed to be very close to flat and Headroom gives them a "5" vs the "3.5" for the GS1000. The ue-10 are $900 plus about $50 for impressions and the GS1000 is $995 so they are very close in price so you can't really factor a real price difference into that rating. For me a flat neutral headphone is just that, neutral. It's not bad but it's nothing to get excitied about. The GS1000 are anything but neutral and that's how I like. For me, they still have the John Grado house sound. Ok, now I'm done.

I think it is the recording on the Queen is Dead. Great album, not such a good recording. I think you are using the Headamp GS-1 amp with the GS-1000s right? Do you have a tube amp laying around that you could see if it could take care of some the silibance? I put a MF X-10v3 between my cd player and the HR-2 and it seems to help with recordings that are hard on the ears.

 

[Kieran Comito]

oh just to clarify, the Musical Fidelity X-10v3 is a tube buffer.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran Comito I think it is the recording on the Queen is Dead. Great album, not such a good recording. I think you are using the Headamp GS-1 amp with the GS-1000s right? Do you have a tube amp laying around that you could see if it could take care of some the silibance? I put a MF X-10v3 between my cd player and the HR-2 and it seems to help with recordings that are hard on the ears.

Sorry, I don't have a tube amp. I got the GS-1 because it seemed like it might be a better match for the GS1000 than tubes. It was also supposed to less harsh on the SR-325i, so I figured that would translate to the GS1000. I think it sounds great. It is less harsh than the RA-1. I also bought it used so I don't know how much break in it has.

I'll have to try my setup with a different sounce to determine if it's the DAC. The DAC mods are supposed to help the highs and give it even more soundstage, so it is something to consider.

Yes, "the Queen is Dead" is not the best recording but with the GS1000, it brings it to life. On other artists, the ue-10 don't sound bad but they are still missing something that the Grados have. They are just too dry for my taste but they are a wonderful portable headphone that doesn't require an amp.

 

[superman's ears]

x

 

[markot86]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE I only mentioned it because headroom and other companies that generally sell grado imho are not large companies that can take 10-20% returns of whatever they sell, espically on expensive headphones like this. I have no problem buying something as a demo from bestbuy, but that is because bestbuy is not lusting for my money, and they are easily okay with me returning even $100,000 in merchandise. Smaller retailers take a big hit, and considering that headroom and many great online audio stores don't even take a restocking fee, they are taking a really big loss. I think it'de be wiser to resell in the headphone section and take maybe $50-100 hit (as these headphones are so damn popular) then to kill somebodies business.

While I do understand your concern, there is a reason why these companies offer these money back guarantee deals; because a) these deals draw customers and b) because many times the knowledge that you can return the headphone draws the customer to pulling the trigger anyways. Now I'm not saying that you should abuse this idea, but IMO it's perfectly acceptable to buy 3 headphones from a company that offers such return policies and return 2 or even all three of them because this is the right that they gave you and this is why you purchased from them in the first place.

In addition, many of these places already have some sort of return buffer built into the price, and openly say this. I have made many purchases from headroom over the years and have always used their pricematch feature. For example, when I was looking for a pair of HD580's, I found them on shipdog for 140 shipped. When I confronted Headroom about this price, the email that I got gave me a higher price but reminded me that Headroom offers a return policy while shipdog doesn't. While I ended up changing my mind about the 580's, the principle stays the same; Headroom and many of these companies bank on the fact that even though their prices are higher, the return policy will give them sales, and in my case, it has definitely won me over; I'd be hardpressed to buy headphones from any other retailer.

Also, what I feel like people don't understand is that there are several different things a company can do with returned purchases; they don't have to sell them back as used. Many companies can send the headphones back to the manufacturer to get them refurbished. In addition, there is quite a bit of overhead involved in anything in the market, particularly the audio one. Sure, you just returned a 300 dollar headphone, but even if the retailer has to in a worst case scenario eat the costs, they will eat their costs instead. So chances are even if you pick one of those three headphones and the other two that you have returned must be thrown away (which I seriously doubt), they will still make a profit. heck, even if you return all three headphones, the fact that these companies are absolutely fantastic in giving you your money back should win your loyalty, and thus in the end, the retailer is the winner.

Therefore, I don't really see much merit in people being angry when someone says that they will return a headphone. Believe me, if these retailers did not give you this option, I feel like they would not be nearly as successful as they are today.