[upstateguy]

Duke University behavioral economist Dan Ariely won an Ig Nobel for his study that found more expensive fake medicines work better than cheaper fake medicines.

"When you expect something to happen, your brain makes it happen," Ariely said.

But we know this is complete bunk! We know more expensive cables sound better than cheap cables and more expensive amps sound better than cheap amps! Richard Clark and David Clark know this, why don't you?

The full Monty here

USG

 

[JadeEast]

There was a great interview on the Podcast "all in the mind" earlier this year with Dan Ariely I recommend this episode and the podcast in general.

All In The Mind - 29 March 2008 - Your irrational mind

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif There was a great interview on the Podcast "all in the mind" earlier this year with Dan Ariely I recommend this episode and the podcast in general. All In The Mind - 29 March 2008 - Your irrational mind

Cool. Thanks for that link.

Thanks for the original post too.

Exciting times!

--Chris

 

[flashnolan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Duke University behavioral economist Dan Ariely won an Ig Nobel for his study that found more expensive fake medicines work better than cheaper fake medicines. "When you expect something to happen, your brain makes it happen," Ariely said. But we know this is complete bunk! We know more expensive cables sound better than cheap cables and more expensive amps sound better than cheap amps! Richard Clark and David Clark know this, why don't you? The full Monty here USG

This is a catch 22 in a way. More expensive cables sound "better" then cheaper cables. But since sound is only how we perceive it and since it sounds "better" with a more expensive cable the sound IS better to that person. So it could be argued that while the cable does nothing scientifically to make the sound better the sound is better because of the human element.

 

[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashnolan /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it could be argued that while the cable does nothing scientifically to make the sound better the sound is better because of the human element.

The community violently rejects this argument though. It's not exactly new.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashnolan /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a catch 22 in a way. More expensive cables sound "better" then cheaper cables. But since sound is only how we perceive it and since it sounds "better" with a more expensive cable the sound IS better to that person. So it could be argued that while the cable does nothing scientifically to make the sound better the sound is better because of the human element.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The community violently rejects this argument though. It's not exactly new.

I think flash is absolutely correct. The more expensive fake medicines were found to work better than the cheaper fake medicines and so it should be with cables. The more expensive "fake" cables will sound better than the cheaper "fake" cables... until you ABX them.... same with amps, as per the two Clarks.

The force is strong with Placebo effect.

USG

 

[QQQ]

If it works, it's all godd i guess. I know people who's just can't relax with cheap cables(or anything) in their system. They say - even i can't know for sure is there any difference or not, i'm feeling much better about my system when all the components are top-notch.

 

[moogoob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it works, it's all godd i guess. I know people who's just can't relax with cheap cables(or anything) in their system. They say - even i can't know for sure is there any difference or not, i'm feeling much better about my system when all the components are top-notch.

Damn straight- for the small amount of time I was forced to use a thin, piddly USB cable with my DAC, I kept fretting till I got a nice, thick one. No logic or reasoning involved. And I sure couldn't tell a difference, either, but at least I could rest.

 

[tintin47]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Duke University behavioral economist Dan Ariely won an Ig Nobel for his study that found more expensive fake medicines work better than cheaper fake medicines. "When you expect something to happen, your brain makes it happen," Ariely said. But we know this is complete bunk! We know more expensive cables sound better than cheap cables and more expensive amps sound better than cheap amps! Richard Clark and David Clark know this, why don't you? The full Monty here USG

This is exactly why I don't believe double blinds. If you pay extra for a cord or an amp and your brain expects it to sound better and makes you perceive it as sounding better, it is just as if the upgrade actually sounds better. It is all about perception, and I have no problem with that whatsoever. Now, it is clear at the lower end of things that the sound gets much better. (going from ibuds to phones, unamped to amped...) If you enjoy it more, why wouldn't you pay for it? Even if the enjoyment is the function of the payment and not the other way around like we're used to in society.

 

[kpeezy]

Huh? A Double Blind Test removes that change in perception by removing the visual stimulus. In a DBT, the listener can't tell which cable cost $2,000 and which cost $2; they have to judge based on what they hear. It could save some people a lot of money.

 

[Nocturnal310]

The best way to prove Placebo Effect is blind fold a person and make him listen to iBuds and tell he is listening to Yuin Pk1.

lol

 

[Real Man of Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is exactly why I don't believe double blinds. If you pay extra for a cord or an amp and your brain expects it to sound better and makes you perceive it as sounding better, it is just as if the upgrade actually sounds better. It is all about perception, and I have no problem with that whatsoever. Now, it is clear at the lower end of things that the sound gets much better. (going from ibuds to phones, unamped to amped...) If you enjoy it more, why wouldn't you pay for it? Even if the enjoyment is the function of the payment and not the other way around like we're used to in society.

Because once you have exposed Mr Placebo for the lying biatch that he is you can then enjoy the cheaper stuff without having to spend the extra dough.
Reality can have it's perks too.

 

[malldian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The best way to prove Placebo Effect is blind fold a person and make him listen to iBuds and tell he is listening to Yuin Pk1. lol

Tell me you have never done this...

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Man of Genius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because once you have exposed Mr Placebo for the lying biatch that he is you can then enjoy the cheaper stuff without having to spend the extra dough. Reality can have it's perks too.

I'm very sympathetic to this...if we can show that cables (or whatever) make no perceivable difference in SQ in DBTs, and if we spread the word enough, hopefully we can save a lot of people from spending money pointlessly and (more importantly, perhaps...) begin enjoying their cheap(er) gear.

However, I'm reminded by Hume that the reason is the slave of the passions, and I'm sceptical that we can ever rid people of their potentially false beliefs. People will doubt the science, no doubt.

 

[Gatsu]

If you cease to be a slave to your passions then you have no reason to listen to music any more, as it will not evoke the feelings in you that it once did.