[Dutchess of York]

I know a full sized headphone and an IEM are two completely different animals, designed for different things, but how do you think they stack up to full sized cans? Where does say an ER-4 or SF5pro fit into the general expanse of things SQ wise?

 

[LeChuck]

By their nature, I think full sized cans will always have a leg up on IEM solutions. Full sized cans are designed to maximize quality at any cost; they can be unwieldy, difficult to drive, etc. On the other hand, IEM's are necessarily hampered by their nature because the entire premise behind their design is small, easy to drive, and portability.

IEM manufacturers have to work within much more restrictive confines. That being said, some of them do it miraculously well, like the ultra high end custom IEM's, or even universals like UM2's and E500's.

I've heard people say they prefer the "intimate" experience their IEM's give them, but obviously YMMV, and I personally would chose my home system over my portable system any day.

 

[oicdn]

I dunno, I like the detail of IEMs, and really the only way I can describe it is intimate...my UM2s give me a smile like no other can has yet. Maybe DT770's, but it was still a different kind of smile.

With full size cans, you do get, depending on preference and synergy, "better" sound....but it just seems to lack that one little things IEMs have. I can't place my finger on it, but ideally, you should own both.

 

[only500made]

well, im looking to go back into the full sized cans world now that I missed:

instrument separation
sound stage

I think those two are the most noticeable difference between IEMs and full sized cans (whilst the size of course).

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by only500made /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, im looking to go back into the full sized cans world now that I missed: instrument separation sound stage I think those two are the most noticeable difference between IEMs and full sized cans (whilst the size of course).

The biggest differences that full-size cans have over IEMs: impact/punch, presence, resonance, and soundstage.

Keep in mind, whereever there is a crossover point, you will notice a bloat in the sound.... That is because as the sounds at one crossover point fall off, part of the frequency is starting to rise. Since this is divided up among multiple drivers, you will have an overlapping of frequencies at those crossover points. One well-made full-size headphone driver is better than having 3 armature drivers.

 

[saboteur1]

One example: The somewhat accentuated lower-mids in the Shure E500.

 

[James63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif The biggest differences that full-size cans have over IEMs: impact/punch, presence, resonance, and soundstage. Keep in mind, whereever there is a crossover point, you will notice a bloat in the sound.... That is because as the sounds at one crossover point fall off, part of the frequency is starting to rise. Since this is divided up among multiple drivers, you will have an overlapping of frequencies at those crossover points. One well-made full-size headphone driver is better than having 3 armature drivers.

sorry not true at all...... a single driver has fare more limitations than several drivers. Look at the top of the line speakers or better yet listen to them

 

[Bolardito]

IEM'S are getting closer to full size phones in terms of SQ. I mean the UE11 is probably better than 95% of full size cans.. It has great soundstage, instrument separation, accurate reproduction of all frequencies...

 

[iBug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif sorry not true at all...... a single driver has fare more limitations than several drivers. Look at the top of the line speakers or better yet listen to them

There are speakers costing 40000$ with 2 drivers and speakers costing 1000$ with 4 drivers. The number of drivers is never an indication about sound quality. And actually, single driver is the most ideal one if it can actually generate from 20 to 20k.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif sorry not true at all...... a single driver has fare more limitations than several drivers. Look at the top of the line speakers or better yet listen to them

Don't roll your eyes. Obviously you don't know about acoustic engineering or speaker dynamics. Any professional acoustic engineer will tell you that the ideal set-up would be to use one superb speaker driver. There are several speaker companies devoted to making single speaker floorstanding units. Their only drawback is the bottom of the low frequencies, which they use a small subwoofer to compensate for, if you require. Using one driver for the speaker, which is usually an 8" or 9" cone, frequencies are reproduced from 40Hz - 20kHz. A subwoofer can be purchased optional to fill in the range from 20Hz - 60Hz where the frequencies are really rolled off, if preferred by the customer. When I have time, I will dig up some of these companies on the internet and post them here.

Keep in mind, you aren't using a speaker with a heavy magnet. You need the speaker to move fluidly, allow for fast transients, and reproduce all the frequencies as evenly as possible, just like a good headphone driver. More work is done on the cabinet itself to provide the acoustic properties necessary for the speaker to sound and perform well.

Yes, most companies use multiple drivers to seperate the frequency bands. The better your speakers and crossover matrix are, the less crossover bloat you will notice. But even in minute quantities, it is still measurable. This is because crossovers don't cut off at an exact frequency. They have a roll off. It could be a 20db per octave roll off. But you will still have those frequencies overlapping even if they are extremely quiet.

And think about this... we don't need 3 eardrums, do we? We pick up all audible frequencies with just one eardrum. Imagine how funny it would be if we had one eardrum for bass, one for mids, and one for highs? Well, we don't. If we can perceive all vibrations with a single eardrum, we should be able to generate those vibrations with a single speaker. And so a philosophy was built upon, and now many companies believe their single driver speakers sound better than most of the multiple driver speakers today. I heard one pair. They were pretty amazing.

Edit: Hi-Fi Single Driver Speaker companies & Info:

Beauhorn

Brines Acoustics

http://singledriver.blogspot.com/

Magnepan Planar/Magnetic/Ribbon Speakers Ribbon driver speakers, these have crossover points though, but still arguably better than loudspeakers with crossover points

Omega TS2 review

Fullrangedriver.com This site shows many DIY projects. The link here goes to the gallery.

 

[krc2]

Interesting thought though that we have 5 senses that pick up different frequencies... wouldnt 1 be the best system then? But since this is an audio based forum this stuff isnt really relevant, just interesting to consider I guess

 

[richierich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolardito /img/forum/go_quote.gif IEM'S are getting closer to full size phones in terms of SQ. I mean the UE11 is probably better than 95% of full size cans.. It has great soundstage, instrument separation, accurate reproduction of all frequencies...

For its price, it better be that good.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolardito /img/forum/go_quote.gif IEM'S are getting closer to full size phones in terms of SQ. I mean the UE11 is probably better than 95% of full size cans.. It has great soundstage, instrument separation, accurate reproduction of all frequencies...

well i dunno bout you but ive heard the ue11 are fairly dissapointing, i think headphones are like little house speakers and so usually have the same properties and sound similar, what i find with iems is they manage to create detail alot better and the bass on some can surpass the quality of full size subs so for this reason i dont bother with full size headphones.

ofcourse i do most of my critical listening walking around so thats another reason why

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBug /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are speakers costing 40000$ with 2 drivers and speakers costing 1000$ with 4 drivers. The number of drivers is never an indication about sound quality. And actually, single driver is the most ideal one if it can actually generate from 20 to 20k.

it is very rare a single driver will handlt 20hz to 20khz well, because that driver needs to move a little and alot at the same time so if bass is wacking it out then the mids are wacked out also and spoilt so it is the case most the time when its all seperate it sounds better.

there have been systems made that actually have 10 massive speakers which are very high quality handling lots of different instruments, its all about seperation that makes it clear and able to hear detail.

so for that reason in general i prefer multi driver iem's to single driver. as for speakers it a little harder to judge because obviously you dont want 10 low quality speakers becasue it will kick through bad

 

[Bolardito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif well i dunno bout you but ive heard the ue11 are fairly dissapointing

The only negative comment on them came for Ilounge other than that only positive to enthusiastic reviews. If you don't believe me have a read on the First UE11 Impressions thread or the Jude review..

I used to think the E500 were the best IEM's could go..until I heard the UE11 which is definetely on a different level. Another question would be value for money..then you could have an argument against UE11 but for pure SQ is the king of IEMS