[Sordel]

So my Shure E4cs arrived in the post this morning. I tried them with the factory-fitted soft flex sleeves but all I could hear was the gentle hiss as they slid back out of my ear canals in five seconds, so I switched to the triple-flange. Bingo! Comfortable, isolating fit. No customs for me.

Then I started listening to them.

I don't get it. They sound okay, and they isolate quite well, but coming off the K 701s they sound, well, no better than my B&O buds, yet with the added inconvenience of having two big pieces of plastic shoved into your ear canals. First question: what am I missing?

Second question: I tried running these from my Micro Amp and I was expecting high sensitivity ... but I can actually hear some of the peaks in the music with the volume knob turned right down (on Low Gain). Turned up to about 9 o' clock I'm reaching the outer limits of listening comfort. Is this normal? And, if so, is there even a point in using a headphone amp with IEMs this efficient?

Third question (and this one's even dodgier than the first two): the doughnut that you're meant to store them in ... how does that work, eh? Do you just shove everything in there?, because I can't really see how you "wind" them in any meaningful sense.

 

[exX08]

I thought this with my ER4P's at first. Then I listned to them for a while. Now they sound so much better than at first. It's not a break in thing, it's more a getting used to the soundstage of an IEM thing. Just listen to it a while, see if you like it. If not, sell them or whatever you want.

 

[jdimitri]

Well, with the winding thing, you just wind it in 2 or 3 fingers then put them in
That understandable btw, i thought the B&O sounded excellent..

Where it makes a difference is when you're outside, you'll start appreciating them a lot more. But it might be possible that you're not getting the best seal

Also try the different tips.. they all sound different

 

[m_memmory]

With my E2c I had the same case (I think) as you have - the one with no spindle in the middle - and what I used to do was wind the chord around my fingers and then put it all into the case with the earphones themselves sitting in the middle of the gap that is created by winding the chord around my fingers (I know that sounds really strange but hopefully you'll get what I mean)

EDIT: jdimitri beat me to it...

 

[Danfried]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Second question: I tried running these from my Micro Amp and I was expecting high sensitivity ... but I can actually hear some of the peaks in the music with the volume knob turned right down (on Low Gain). Turned up to about 9 o' clock I'm reaching the outer limits of listening comfort. Is this normal? And, if so, is there even a point in using a headphone amp with IEMs this efficient?

From Shure's website, in a word: NO!!!

According to Shure themselves, there is no point in using an amp with their IEMs because of their high sensitivity/low impedance. To me this isn't surprising, since I think they originally were designed as a specialty product for live-performing musicians to use during performances, for whom toting around an amp would be impractical.

Of course, this being Head-fi, you'll find plenty of people who will tell you they make a big difference. Not having tried them with an amp myself, I'm a bit skeptical. There is probably one undeniable benefit though -- if you use them with a noisy source, they can help eliminate the hiss.

 

[StevieDvd]

Hi,

First of all download the Sensaphonic test tracks which are just a set of low freq and higher freq notes. Even with universal fit the bass can be missing/diluted if you don't have a good seal - these tracks will tell you whether you really are getting a good seal for each ear. Once the bass is sorted then the trebles can be evaluated properly. Without compensation from the bass any treble can seem harsher.

As for musicians not wanting to carry around an amp, if I understand correctly they plug their iems into a special box (like an amp) but which is connected wirelessly to other equipment that feeds their chosen mix to their iem's. I don't think many of them have Ipods on stage.

Personally I feel all my iem's from ER4, UM2, E500 and now ACS T2 all do benefit from an amp. Though they all beat the standard ipod earbuds without an amp in sight.

Steve

 

[frescagod]

just so you know, the tri-flanges are the only ones that don't really fit in my ear. even if i cut them down to bi-flanges and shove them in, i still get a less than stellar sound out of them, even though it sounds like they're fully sealing. my advice- start with the foamies.

 

[Sordel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frescagod /img/forum/go_quote.gif my advice- start with the foamies.

Yes, I've been here long enough to know that most people gravitate to foamies over time. I've got them in now (I'm leery of using them up because I have yet to order extras and they are very fragile things) and I think I can hear the SQ advantage over tri-flanges, but they work their ways out of my ears, which is a pain compared with the tri-flanges, which fit fairly securely without trimming. Still, I promised not to talk about fit ...

I think I've spoiled myself listening on the K 701s: but at least they reset my hearing so that I don't have to bother all the time about bass.

 

[illy2k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exX08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought this with my ER4P's at first. Then I listned to them for a while. Now they sound so much better than at first. It's not a break in thing, it's more a getting used to the soundstage of an IEM thing. Just listen to it a while, see if you like it. If not, sell them or whatever you want.

def agree!!

IEM's are not dynamic cans, they are IEM's! They have a sound which allows you to hear everything, you can hear much more crisp detail than I think on plain cans, they do lack bass however. I feel like everyone expects IEM's to sound like 650's and 701's. You really need to get used to the sound. It is so enjoyable to shutout the world and hear amazing details and clarity, and that is where IEM's exceed.

 

[StevieDvd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I've been here long enough to know that most people gravitate to foamies over time...

I thought it was the other way!

Foamies > Flanges > sleeves > customs > bankrupt

 

[germanium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danfried /img/forum/go_quote.gif From Shure's website, in a word: NO!!! According to Shure themselves, there is no point in using an amp with their IEMs because of their high sensitivity/low impedance. To me this isn't surprising, since I think they originally were designed as a specialty product for live-performing musicians to use during performances, for whom toting around an amp would be impractical. Of course, this being Head-fi, you'll find plenty of people who will tell you they make a big difference. Not having tried them with an amp myself, I'm a bit skeptical. There is probably one undeniable benefit though -- if you use them with a noisy source, they can help eliminate the hiss.

The primary difference of amp usage compared to no amp is in the bass. Most portables do not have good bass extension by themselves & are somewhat down in response by 40Hz & nonexistant by 20Hz. If you use an amp you give the portable a faverably load impedance & you can get near flat respnse to 20Hz. This is a function of the output capacitors to the load impedance in the portable. An amp generally has larger caps & in some cases no caps at all as in D.C. coupled. D.C. coupled amps will have no low frequency rolloff at all & will be flat to zero hertz in & of it self so the only rolloff you would get with these is a function of the load impedance of the input to the amp to the size of the output coupling cap in the portable & that should be flat to less than 2Hz!! esentially no audible rolloff of the bass. Anouther benifit to D.C. coupling is no loss of detail due to dielectric absorbsion caused by typical coupling caps which are usually electrolytic ( metalized films do not suffer this nearly as bad but these are huge in size relative to capacitance & hence not used in portables).This loss of detail can be very noticable. Almost all of my home gear is true D.C. coupled for this reason.

 

[StevieDvd]

Shure will of course say on their web site that an amp is not needed as they want to sell iem's not amps. The majority of their market are looking for an improvement over the basic ear buds supplied with music players, this they'll get. Shure would not want to scare these people away by mentioning that an amp may improve the sound as some would take that message as an amp is needed!

This is not a side swipe as Shure as what they do makes commercial sense and they seem to be a reputable company from my dealings with them.

I found this in their faq:

"Shure earphones were designed to be compatible with portable battery-powered devices. Their high sensitivity allows them to produce comfortable listening levels even when driven by devices with low-powered headphone amplifiers. Also, their sound isolating design blocks out background noise, so you can listen comfortably at lower levels than with standard earbuds. So, an external headphone amplifier is unnecessary, but could be used."

Not exactly the same as 'no point'.

Sorry for the off track diversion.

If the low level setting on your micro-amp only let's you get the volume up to 9 o'clock you could consider an attenuator (like the ones use to bring an ER4p to an ER4s level) to give a wider range of control on the microamp and to still benefit from using an amp.

Steve

 

[artears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danfried /img/forum/go_quote.gif From Shure's website, in a word: NO!!! According to Shure themselves, there is no point in using an amp with their IEMs because of their high sensitivity/low impedance. To me this isn't surprising, since I think they originally were designed as a specialty product for live-performing musicians to use during performances, for whom toting around an amp would be impractical. Of course, this being Head-fi, you'll find plenty of people who will tell you they make a big difference. Not having tried them with an amp myself, I'm a bit skeptical. There is probably one undeniable benefit though -- if you use them with a noisy source, they can help eliminate the hiss.

You are always using an amp while playing music through your dap. The internal amp in a dap is obviously not of a high quality, so using the line-out, which bypasses the internal one and an external high quality amp will definetely increase the sound quality no matter how sensitive the earphones you are using. To me, the headphone out of my 4th gen ipod is terrible with E500s, I will make it imodded at some point, this is another story though. I can clearly hear differences when using my Hornet with my other daps as well compared to using their headphone out, this can be also from the nice pairing of E500s and Hornet, but I can clearly say I am benefiting from using a headphone amp.

 

[milkpowder]

I haven't got much to add to what has already been said, but don't you find the K701 vastly superior to the E4c? The K701 is so much more refined and detailed! From a technical standpoint, the K701 are in another league.

 

[Sordel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif From a technical standpoint, the K701 are in another league.

This is certainly one problem that I'm having with the E4cs!

Artears, I take the point that one is always using an amp. For example, the headphone circuit on my PCDP is very noisy, so that I can hear the motor running if I plug headphones into it; by using the Line Out into the Micro Amp I can completely avoid this. Similarly, it's good practice to use my LOD when I'm listening to my iPod. But ... the iPod headphone out is not as awful to my ears as it is to those of some forumites, and when you factor in the inconvenience of carrying an amp, together with the fact that I will always be wearing the E4cs, almost by definition, in a noisy environment, I suspect that the Micro Stack will be staying at home even on big journeys.

I've got a feeling that my "(trans)portable rig" is going to be iPod + Micro Stack + K701s, whereas my pocket system is going to be iPod + E4cs/Bose ies/B&O buds.