IEM - is there 'open' vs 'closed'? (For the soundstage difference.....)
Apr 19, 2015 at 10:00 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

ULUL

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In full sized headphones, there are open back and closed back models.  And they are specified as such.  I much prefer the open back full sized head phones for the soundstage.  All closed just sound small to me. 

However, with IEMs, I don't see any distinction.  The only ones I have tried are all 'closed' backs.   Currently I use a Klipsch X10.  Light as a feather, super comfortable, decent sound and easy to drive though I do use a USB dac/amp. 
 
Question: Do IEMs come in close and opens? 
 
I am currently just starting to try a pair of earbuds hoping it will give an 'open back' type soundstage. However, I am having trouble having it fit, possibly because of the way my ear is shaped. The earbud 'float' away from my ear canal and sounds tinny. It sounds good when I press it lightly up against my ear canal but when I take my hands away, it loses any semblance of any seal when it falls away and sounds tinny/hollow.   
 
So wondering if there are any open back IEMs that gives an open air earbud sound.  Looking for something with a high quality sound. 
 
Thanks!
ULUL
 
Apr 19, 2015 at 7:03 PM Post #3 of 14
sort of yeah, if you're talking about a vented dynamic. The closest to open earbud sound I've heard is the radius DDM, which uses an enormous 15mm driver and has very little isolation. Nothing else I've heard comes close, and I mostly only buy dynamics. You might also wanna try a semi open IEM with a large driver and low isolation, like the one above. But even then I'm not sure how close it gets to an earbud. As open as my radius DDM sounds, it's still nowhere near as open sounding as an earbud.
 
Apr 22, 2015 at 6:36 PM Post #4 of 14
Apr 22, 2015 at 6:47 PM Post #5 of 14
the IEMs mentioned are good options.  IEM's definitely vary in soundstage, but none are going to match the experience of open full sized cans.  IEM's just dont have the space needed to create the effect as well as full sized. 
 
Apr 22, 2015 at 7:41 PM Post #6 of 14
Iems are a lifestyle choice. I find them more convenient. When I first heard the Miles trumpets for example, it just opened up a new learning experience - pretty amazing for tiny micro drivers.
 
Oct 2, 2018 at 8:42 AM Post #8 of 14
In full sized headphones, there are open back and closed back models. And they are specified as such. I much prefer the open back full sized head phones for the soundstage. All closed just sound small to me.

However, with IEMs, I don't see any distinction. The only ones I have tried are all 'closed' backs. Currently I use a Klipsch X10. Light as a feather, super comfortable, decent sound and easy to drive though I do use a USB dac/amp.

Question: Do IEMs come in close and opens?

I am currently just starting to try a pair of earbuds hoping it will give an 'open back' type soundstage. However, I am having trouble having it fit, possibly because of the way my ear is shaped. The earbud 'float' away from my ear canal and sounds tinny. It sounds good when I press it lightly up against my ear canal but when I take my hands away, it loses any semblance of any seal when it falls away and sounds tinny/hollow.

So wondering if there are any open back IEMs that gives an open air earbud sound. Looking for something with a high quality sound.

Thanks!
ULUL
In India there's an online portal called Hifinage which has come out with their first earphones called "Soundsly Apaisant". I could lay my hands on one yesterday n haven't taken it off my ears yet!! It simply blew me away. It's open back IEM's with one dynamic and one balanced armature (dual drivers). I'm so happy to have bought these. My most cherished possession till date. I have much more expensive one's than these and these beat them round n square. If u can import them, u will not regret it. Great detail retrieval, good instrument separation, very balanced lows, just amazing mids n perfect highs. Good soundstage and imaging. Just get it.
 
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Oct 2, 2018 at 8:24 PM Post #9 of 14
You also may want to check out either the Inearz Zen series with the ADEL Module, or the 64 Audios with APEX. I know the ADEL has a manual module that allows you to "open" the sound quite a bit.
 
Oct 2, 2018 at 9:12 PM Post #10 of 14
Weaves, the iem's you mentioned looks really good n very promising but way expensive for someone like me. No denying for the price they may be good and moreover they are customised IEM's . The IEM's I'm talking about costs less than 60$ !! And they can give a real tough competition to the other big players on the market. Anyways the day I can spend that kind of money on IEM's I'll give them a try. Thanks for the suggestion.Cheers...
 
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Sep 11, 2023 at 9:20 AM Post #13 of 14
I know this thread is old, but there seems to be an misunderstanding due to syntax.

The issue is that on Head-Fi, everything is an IEM (In-Ear Monitor), no matter if it is an Monitor or not.

Actually, IEM are only Monitors (hence the Monitor in the name) and with Monitors, when you're talking about Closed Monitors, you mean an All-BA set that doesn't have
OR any airvents for isolation.

Some people call them "completely closed" or "sealed" or "unvented" but its all the same thing.

With average earphone, the story is different because (for reasons that make zero sense, i'll explain soon), open back earphone to exist.

First of all, we have to understand why headphones are open.

It starts with the use of an Dynamic Driver, Dynamic Drivers are very complicated to tune, much more than people expect. And not just are Dynamic Drivers complicated to tune to begin with, the housing has an significant influence on the tuning. The same issues i explain are true for Planar and EST too

With In-Ear, thats no problem. You can have a complex housing with several tuning layers behind the drivers like here

1694437684657.png


or here
1694437711332.png

Something like that is not possible with Over Ear Headphones as the housings would be up to 50cm large. Nobody would want an headphone that sticks out of your head half an meter (or 1.5 feet for murricans)

Also In-Ear Headphones can use several drivers optimizing on the frequency range

1694437843805.png

This is not possible with Over Ear headphones.

So there are two issues. Over Ear Headphones are limited to one single driver, that is very hard to tune, to cover the whole frequency range, in addition to that, you you have much less control over the tuning with the housing as you are limited in size, in addition to that, you have more air and more variables to control (head shape, ear shape and so on).

That is why some makers just said "Screw it" and made the back open. So they have one less factor they have to care about. But this also comes with significant downsides because even though you have less variables to care about, you also loose a lot of tuning capabilities.

The reason why Open Back Headphones sound so "open" and "wide" is due to the fact that most of them have recessed bass and lots of treble due to the lack of an housing.

You can just emulate that with an EQ or you can, alternatively, just tune the Earphone the exact same way.

The Final A4000 for example sounds more open and wide than most Open Back Headphones. The E5000, even though it is warm and has a lot of bass, also sounds very wide and open (something that doesn't exist in the over head world).

So actually, you do not want the back to be open. Because when you open the back, you loose a lot of control over the tuning of something that is already hard to tune to begin with. You want the back to be closed. Open Back earphones make, imho, absolutely zero sense because they suffer from non of the issues that are the reason why Headphones are open back.

Open Back earphone are just marketing and nothing more. It solves no issue, but adds issues. Open Back Headphones are simpler/easier/cheaper to make, but generally suffer from a lack of tuning capabilities.

Look at the Stealth from Dan Clark Audio for example. They found a way to tune the driver exactly they want it to sound and the headphone is exactly what they want it to be. For purist audiophiles they made an Open Back Version but they explained in the Developer Interview, that its actually inferior. It is basically identical to the stealth, just with less control over the tuning, thats it. Again, you do not want an open back, neither with headphones, nor with earphones. With headphones, it can take away disadvantages but adds new disadvantages at the same time. With earphone, they don't have the disadvantages of headphones in the first place and so don't suffer from the same issues.

Closed earphone = All-BA sets that are sealed with no air vents --> Generally used with foam due to the lack of air pressure exchange
Normal earphone = Have an DD and so on airvent for air pressure exchange
Open earphone = Marketing scam
 
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Sep 11, 2023 at 1:52 PM Post #14 of 14
The largest soundstage with both depth and width is the Seeaudio Yume II which really impressed when gaming and the distance I could hear away. Using large enough tips to get a good seal is important too. I got the Dune S&S which are longer than most stock tips and places it 1mm or two further away. It can help the soundstage width up to a certain point, before it affects the sound. An affordable option I like is the KZ X HBB PR2 planar magnetic IEM which I got on Aliexpress for $36.50. Those take a real amplifier, as hard to drive as a Hifiman HE4xx but they sound great if you have the current. On a Topping A30Pro with E50 DAC I was going to 12-2 oclock on the volume wheel in medium gain to get them loud if that helps. There's a lot of planar headphones I wouldn't get now after hearing them. You just have to really give them the beans with power/current.
 

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