[Fuzziekiwi]

I'm stepping into the iem field for a bit. I'm wondering if balanced armature iems lack bass. I am specifically looking at the Westone w20s.

 

[Nhubley]

I would also love to learn more about this! Subscribed! 

 

[viralcow]

I generally don't like IEMs so I don't have much experience (haven't heard the W20s) but from what I've dabbled in, I don't think that assumption is true. The XBA-3, for example, use triple BA's and have very good bass. But I will admit that dynamic drivers have the potential for waay more bass. I recently switched to Audio-Technica IM50s and they have the most bass I've ever heard coming out of an iem.

 

[thatBeatsguy]

Experience with IEMs has taught me that dynamic drivers will give a lot more bass power than BAs, but BAs win over dynamics in terms of accuracy. Then again, mutiple BAs can use one as a bass driver and the other as mids/highs in a crossover.
 
http://musictechreview.com/in-ear-monitors-balanced-armature-drivers-vs-dynamic-drivers/

 

[ProtegeManiac]

IEM - Dynamic vs Balanced Armature
 
Search function results:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/567151/ba-vs-dynamic-drivers-a-discussion
http://www.head-fi.org/t/307365/the-true-sound-representation-delusion-or-dynamic-vs-armature
http://www.head-fi.org/t/198787/dynamic-vs-balanced-armature
http://www.head-fi.org/t/397353/balanced-armature-vs-dynamic
http://www.head-fi.org/t/263227/opinion-on-type-of-iem-drivers-armature-vs-dynamic

 

[Nhubley]

 

Thanks for the links! 

 

[Fuzziekiwi]

I had already found the search function and just read about how BA has less bass, and the threads were quite old. Not much has been said about the W20's even in the appreciation thread.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Don't forget there's also many hybrid IEM out these days which combine both a dynamic driver handling the lows and BA for mids and highs. A good example of these would be Dunu DN-1000 or Altone200 3-way hybrids.

As for your question it is generally true that balanced armature can't reach quite as low in extension but they do pretty well in general, especially multi armature IEM where a BA can be dedicated to the lows. Really depends on the tuning and what signature the earphones trying to achieve.

 

[SteveHiFi]

Dynamic vs Balanced Armature? Don't make them fight, go with hybrids.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I had already found the search function and just read about how BA has less bass, and the threads were quite old. 

 
The definitive posts in those threads about the differences between dynamic and armature drivers are still true. In sum: it's not so much that BA drivers lack bass, but that they only give a relatively flat response at a relatively narrow range, which is why manufacturers use multiple BA drivers to cover the entire audible frequency range (also made possible because they are smaller and don't require an air chamber like a dynamic driver). In some cases they not only tune what frequencies by what driver, but how many - for example in some triple driver designs, they are 2-way (with dual midrange-bass drivers) instead of 3-way.
 
So basically the answer is "it depends" (on how the manufacturer designed the IEM).
 
 

Not much has been said about the W20's even in the appreciation thread.

 

I've tried the older W2, and if it's close enough to the W20, I'd say it's enough for me but I imagine 75% of other people will consider the bass inadequate. Double bass drum for example are audible but don't sound too deep, although single well-spaced kicks on it (like on hard or classic rock) are audible and sound deep enough. The plastic tips are horrible though, even the multi-flange ones - I can get them to fit "right" (they don't move around, etc) but the sound is just too thin all over (bass drums sound more like snares on these), so go for the foam tips. Not sure about the new Star tips though. Strong bass hits with a "crawl" as the note decays (like on dance music) are adequate for me but still sound like they're behind the vocals.

 

[Fuzziekiwi]

 

I had already found the search function and just read about how BA has less bass, and the threads were quite old. 

 
The definitive posts in those threads about the differences between dynamic and armature drivers are still true. In sum: it's not so much that BA drivers lack bass, but that they only give a relatively flat response at a relatively narrow range, which is why manufacturers use multiple BA drivers to cover the entire audible frequency range (also made possible because they are smaller and don't require an air chamber like a dynamic driver). In some cases they not only tune what frequencies by what driver, but how many - for example in some triple driver designs, they are 2-way (with dual midrange-bass drivers) instead of 3-way.
 
So basically the answer is "it depends" (on how the manufacturer designed the IEM).
 
 

Not much has been said about the W20's even in the appreciation thread.

 

I've tried the older W2, and if it's close enough to the W20, I'd say it's enough for me but I imagine 75% of other people will consider the bass inadequate. Double bass drum for example are audible but don't sound too deep, although single well-spaced kicks on it (like on hard or classic rock) are audible and sound deep enough. The plastic tips are horrible though, even the multi-flange ones - I can get them to fit "right" (they don't move around, etc) but the sound is just too thin all over (bass drums sound more like snares on these), so go for the foam tips. Not sure about the new Star tips though. Strong bass hits with a "crawl" as the note decays (like on dance music) are adequate for me but still sound like they're behind the vocals.

Hmm. 
 
The amount of bass I like is what the HD650 has. Wonder how it compares. I do prefer balanced headphones. My budget is $200.I'm just currently waiting for amazon to price match the westones.

 

[Nhubley]

  Hmm. 
 
The amount of bass I like is what the HD650 has. Wonder how it compares. I do prefer balanced headphones. My budget is $200.I'm just currently waiting for amazon to price match the westones.

Have you checked out Massdrop for great deals? 

 

[Fuzziekiwi]

 

  Hmm. 
 
The amount of bass I like is what the HD650 has. Wonder how it compares. I do prefer balanced headphones. My budget is $200.I'm just currently waiting for amazon to price match the westones.

Have you checked out Massdrop for great deals? 

Yep. This deal on the W20 is really good though. for $199.

 

[Nhubley]

Yep. This deal on the W20 is really good though. for $199.

Yup. Some good deals there.

 

[Ineargear]

Something I'd written years back on - MY OPINION (I'm a live sound guy)
 
I've been a proponent of Dynamic drivers over armature drivers for many years. The Future Sonics Atrio (10mm) was one of my favorites until it was discontinued a couple years back. Now keep in mind, what I write here is fact with my opinion added. I'm an old rock 'n roll dude who likes band stuff (bass and a drummer kinda acts). If your instrument is the flute I would suggest an armature like the Westone UM20Pro or the Shure SE425. But if your crowds heads goes up and down when your band plays, read on.
 
What's the difference between an Armature & a Dynamic Driver?
 
An Armature driver is very small transducer. In our lives it has primarily been used in the hearing aid market. Recently, they have gained popularity as in-ear monitors. You'll hear them called dual driver, three way, four way etc,. Armature ears moves no air so they don't need an air port like a dynamic.  Mids and highs can be more detailed. However, armatures have always lacked low-end. Manufactures attempt to cure the missing low end by combining several Balanced Armatures together, adding multiple crossovers and tricky chambers. All of which, arguably doesn't sound as natural as a single dynamic.
 
A dynamic driver actually being a speaker moves air. They offer a more coherent and powerful sound. You don't just hear the sound - you feel it! You feel the energy and get bone induction. I'm a singer and own Westone's dual and three way molds. I later got into the Future Sonics mold with a 13mm dynamic. Of course the dynamic has more ass but I also noticed, with the armature driver ears, through out the course of the night, I'd be turning up. One of the pluses of ears is to save ours. Turning up - not so good. With the dynamic - Feeling the sound - I never turned up all night (better on the ears).
 
The dynamic is a warmer sound where as my 2 and 3 ways are a bit brittle and glassy on the high end. Years back, I switched from Stats and Les Pauls to a Parker Fly. It took me a year to finally realize "Why does a guitar have to sound like a Les Paul or a Strat?" Same with earphones. We get use to that brittle top end of the armatures and that's the deal. Well it's not! Get use to a dynamic and the highs are warm and smooth. When I put my three way in my ear at band practice, I have to adjust to it's harshness and bite compared to my molded stage dynamic.
 
Who would like an armature?
 
I'd say blue grass bands, female singers that don't want much ass in your mix, symphony musicians that are concentrated on the higher registers, anyone who doesn't really need or like to feel the low end. Audiophile guys that want a flat sound like the recording engineer mixed in the studio should lean to an armature. Dynamics will present more lows which might not be for you. I just thought of trumpet, sax but I think a dynamic's warmth would be the way to go there.
 
A good dynamic driver costs more than three of the little armatures. It's hard for some to wrap there hands around 1 vs. 3,4,5,6 or what ever the hell they're up to now. To be honest, when I went from 2 way to 3 in the molded armatures, I never heard a difference. I've heard the same from several other regional touring guys. There's no way I'd hear a difference in a 4, 5 or 6 way! When you're standing in front of a PA system and it's kicking your ass. Can you tell if it's one, two, three, four way? Nope, you just know it sounds really good. The rest is selling hype. All the national and regional touring acts we do sound for ask for bi-amped wedges. For the last ten years, I've put full range wedges in front of them. They sound real good. Never has an act said, "is that a 2 way system"?