[bigshot]

I don't doubt it's possible. But I don't see what the purpose of it is. I know that those sub frequencies in my listening room feel like you're underwater. You can feel the air. I can't imagine sealing that kind of frequency up in your ear canal. I'm guessing it could possibly create vertigo.

One thing I do know though is that a lot of people think that the bass that they are hearing is down near 20Hz, when it is actually up around 70, and the high frequencies they refer to are actually upper mids or the bottom end of treble. In the far reaches of the spectrum, you can't determine pitch any more and it turns into a vibration you feel more than hear or piercing squeal above the range you normally hear. These aren't frequencies that are anywhere near important in music. Sub frequencies are useful in movies for explosions and helicopters. I don't know what use frequencies above 15kHz are good for to be honest. They are more of a problem than a good thing.

 

[Blackwoof]

It sounds like very deep rumble I think the isolation helps too. Yeah, I noticed on a lot of music I have only the drone/ambient stuff make use of 5 ~ 50Hz. I remember making 4 posters on Reddit mad that the HD600/L300ltd need over 8db 70Hz low shelf to not sound like a Single Driver Speaker & match the ER4SR under 70Hz.

 

[bigshot]

Rumble is above 30. That bottom octave is pretty much felt, not heard. It rarely is at a level where you can hear it by itself. In Cabin In The Woods at the end of the movie when they are in hell, there is a sub 30 tone, and you can't even really hear it. It fills the room like you are in water, and the stuff inside the walls of my house rattle. It's loud, but it doesn't sound loud at all. It feels more like sinus pressure.

But that example is a movie... If you take a full range piece of music and do an even roll of of the high frequencies starting at 12kHz and an even roll off of the bass starting at 38Hz, it will have a negligible effect on how the music sounds. That stuff that audiophiles spend all their time worrying about just isn't important. I think most people just don't know what the numbers mean in actual sound. They use an equalizer with a wide spill and think they are hearing a narrower range than they are actually hearing.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Forgot about that one.

 

[71 dB]

I have a small home studio with JBL, KRK, Yamaha, and a nice subwoofer and have at least tried to eq them flat where my head sits. It's about as good as I can do.

So you have a studio with flat response. So what? That doesn't mean all the recordings in the World are now balanced.

 

[omegaorgun]

Dynamic bass is better, BA's have their uses. You can get good bass with a BA if tuned right, but DD wins out. Hybrid and Tribrids are the way to go.

 

[omegaorgun]

So it seems like dynamic driver bass is generally preferred to balanced armature bass. This can be observed by hybrid IEMs generally using dynamic drivers for their low frequencies. While there are exceptions like Sony IER-Z1R where the low frequency is driven by BA transducer (and done very well); generally dynamic bass seem to have more impact and BA bass tend to be an unsatisfying tap.

What causes this? Is it distortion? But from what I know even IEMs with low distortion can demonstrate this difference. Is it frequency response then? Why aren't BAs simply tuned to have similar frequency response to the dynamics then?

Anyone able to shine some light to this matter is much appreciated.

Wrong IER-Z1" two dynamic drivers in charge of bass/mids and upper-treble, and one BA driver in charge of the treble".

Features

In pursuit of perfect sound
To deliver music with true emotional impact that takes your breath away; every element of the IER-Z1R headphones has been designed and developed for this one purpose. By paying attention to the smallest details, you can distinguish every nuance and subtle characteristics, in astonishingly faithful sound reproduction.

Originally designed to make you feel
We designed the drivers in the IER-Z1R headphones from the ground up, to work in total harmony together. The consistent sound signature carried out across each driver works as if they were a perfect single driver.

Hear everything with a frequency response to 100 kHz
The super tweeter in the IER-Z1R was developed to deliver ultra-high frequency extension with a new aluminum-coated LCP diaphragm and external magnetic circuit. Its ultra-fast response faithfully follows the fast dynamic transience of music, which provides you with live concert hall atmosphere.

For deep bass and fine details
Inheriting MDR-Z1R's diaphragm structure, the 0.47" dynamic driver's diaphragm consists of magnesium dome and aluminum-coated LCP. This full-range driver offers deep bass and fine mid-high sound.

Faithfully reproduce every note
The newly developed Balanced Armature driver is equipped with a magnesium diaphragm, silver-coated copper voice coil and gold-plated terminals. These realize high definition sound that reproduces even the smallest fading note.

Audio grade capacitor without distortion
Developed from thousands of listening tests, the dedicated film capacitors on the network give much lower distortion. Audio grade solder is also used throughout to ensure maximum signal transparency.

 

[Redcarmoose]

“Wrong IER-Z1" two dynamic drivers in charge of bass/mids and upper-treble, and one BA driver in charge of the treble".”



There is no where where it shows which frequency is reproduced by what. Meaning we know the low DD does bass and super tweeter DD does high treble, but we don’t know if the BA is midrange or treble.

Can you show me where Sony says that?

Wrong IER-Z1" two dynamic drivers in charge of bass/mids and upper-treble, and one BA driver in charge of the treble".

Features

In pursuit of perfect sound
To deliver music with true emotional impact that takes your breath away; every element of the IER-Z1R headphones has been designed and developed for this one purpose. By paying attention to the smallest details, you can distinguish every nuance and subtle characteristics, in astonishingly faithful sound reproduction.

Originally designed to make you feel
We designed the drivers in the IER-Z1R headphones from the ground up, to work in total harmony together. The consistent sound signature carried out across each driver works as if they were a perfect single driver.

Hear everything with a frequency response to 100 kHz
The super tweeter in the IER-Z1R was developed to deliver ultra-high frequency extension with a new aluminum-coated LCP diaphragm and external magnetic circuit. Its ultra-fast response faithfully follows the fast dynamic transience of music, which provides you with live concert hall atmosphere.

For deep bass and fine details
Inheriting MDR-Z1R's diaphragm structure, the 0.47" dynamic driver's diaphragm consists of magnesium dome and aluminum-coated LCP. This full-range driver offers deep bass and fine mid-high sound.

Faithfully reproduce every note
The newly developed Balanced Armature driver is equipped with a magnesium diaphragm, silver-coated copper voice coil and gold-plated terminals. These realize high definition sound that reproduces even the smallest fading note.

Audio grade capacitor without distortion
Developed from thousands of listening tests, the dedicated film capacitors on the network give much lower distortion. Audio grade solder is also used throughout to ensure maximum signal transparency.

 

[redrol]

12mm DD for bass, 1x BA for mids, 5mm DD for highs. This is extremely well known at this point.

 

[bigshot]

If you're a bass head, why would you want to calibrate your system to flat? It seems to me you might start there, and then add a little bass.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Because some people believe bass comes from the driver a special way and to EQ adds distortion, or sends other frequencies out of wack.

 

[bigshot]

I was asking him why if he loves added bass would he calibrate flat. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on it.

And to calibrate flat, you have to use EQ, so your comment doesn't add anything.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I was asking him why if he loves added bass would he calibrate flat. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on it.

And to calibrate flat, you have to use EQ, so your comment doesn't add anything.

Good point.

 

[redrol]

Thats exactly what I do. Flat and add bass according to my mood or track. It's nothing super special and I really don't do it a lot but I get OCD when something should be playing a low sub note and it fails. At this point though, all my IEMS do it great and so does my small studio system so I am golden. Again this isn't really special. I feel like in the last 10+ years IEMs specifically really have been able to dig deep on the bass depth. Before that it was mostly no, you want subbass? Get speakers and a sub. Now it's different.

I'm a basshead only when it comes to 'fun' music. For critical listening, i'm always no eq, no pushed bass. . I guess I all I mean Is i can enjoy both sides of the argument.

 

[Blackwoof]

Because some people believe bass comes from the driver a special way and to EQ adds distortion, or sends other frequencies out of wack.

Yup. That the replies you'd get whenever someone said just do a low shelf on the ER4SR or point out the HD650 driver is not very capable. In the ER4 case it just the common "But the BA is too fast" as if listening to bass rich music on it like it on fast forward?.

Thats exactly what I do. Flat and add bass according to my mood or track. It's nothing super special and I really don't do it a lot but I get OCD when something should be playing a low sub note and it fails. At this point though, all my IEMS do it great and so does my small studio system so I am golden. Again this isn't really special. I feel like in the last 10+ years IEMs specifically really have been able to dig deep on the bass depth. Before that it was mostly no, you want subbass? Get speakers and a sub. Now it's different.

I'm a basshead only when it comes to 'fun' music. For critical listening, i'm always no eq, no pushed bass. . I guess I all I mean Is i can enjoy both sides of the argument.

This is pretty much why I stuck with the ER4XR, Still sounds flat but just slightly fuller and like with many IEM's seems to have no issues doing sub bass notes. With Over head HP's your limited and many need EQ to no sound rolled off under 70Hz.

A bit weird how many get very edgy about that the ER4XR will sound flatter than a HD650 sub bass wise while only using a full range BA?.