[demo1]

Hi,

I've been in a little bit of a conundrum lately, making up my mind on which pair to settle on. I currently own the IE8 which I think are great. However sometimes while listening to them, I find myself wishing for more detail, clarity and separation in sound. I've had experience with the SF5 Pro in the past but all I can remember now is the "clean" sound that it produced.

Now what I'm missing is that clean, clear sound but wish to keep the great low end of my IE8s. Would the TF10 be a good choice then? I really don't like the design though, especially after having dealt with the SF5 Pro.

My last option - which I'm kind of leaning towards the most as of now - is the CK100. However all the talk about its almost non-existent bass is preventing me from purchasing them.

How are the CK100 compared to the TF10? Which one is the better choice for more balanced sound? And most importantly which one has a better low end?

And the most important question: Is the bass on the CK100 THAT BAD? If the bass on the IE8 were 100%, where would the CK100 stand relative to that number?

 

[mvw2]

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/t...eviews-419992/

Basic gist:
-IE8 for bass lover
-CK100 the most balanced
-TF10 balanced but with bass

Pricing:
TF10 = $300
TF10 + $50 = IE8
IE8 + $100 = CK100

Bang for the buck, the TF10 seems to win out. For all out balance without a budget, the CK100 wins. The IE8 wins if you want bass.

Now, the better route is none of these, and you step straight to customs. A set of Livewires will run you about $300 too, and the sound quality will be better then any of these. However, it's a custom fit and tailored only to you. This means no sharing earphones and resale becomes challenging if you end up going another route. I don't know if they can be broken down back into the raw drivers and remolded to a new user. I'm not sure how it works specifically. Just be aware that customs are yours and yours alone. However, bang for the buck and end sound quality, they are king.

One step down and you're back to the TF10, CK100, IE8, W3, SE530, etc... debate. The choice simply comes down to personal preference as well as budget.

Now if you don't need a IEM specifically, I would point you to one other options. If you don't mind stepping to an earbud, look at Yuin's OK1. This is a killer bud and is on par with the above mentioned IEMs. You just don't get isolation. The price is attractive though at just $230...as well as Head Direct's 30 day money back guarantee. A nice read:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/y...-pro-s-382551/
I do own the OK1 and do agree with the thread. The OK1 is a stellar product. However, I have not used the high end IEMs like the TF10, IE8, or CK100, although I did just purchase the TF10 yesterday as an IEM counterpart to my OK1 stablemate for when I do specifically want isolation. As well, the OK1 pretty much requires an amp to get great results(fine without but light on the bottom end), and the TF10 is easier to drive and just a better option for portables. My TF10 purchase was an upgrade to the previous mid level products I used like the ER4S and PFE. I was looking for a better incarnation.

 

[mark2410]

are you using the IE8 amped?they should be giving you excellent clarity, their warmth may give the impression of not being so clear but pretty much every thing is there

or if you just want more treble then the triple would be the way to go i think

 

[Aevum]

hmm... i´ve had the TF10 and now i have the IE8,

once the IE8 opens up it does have good clarity, the highs on the TF10 are a bit more extended, but the fit and comfort make up for it,

also the IE8 sounds thicker and more natural compared to the TF10, not balanced, but natural, it has a more live sound to it, while the TF10 is a bit thinner and more clinical, and consider i mostly listen to alternative and 80´s rock, the IE8 fits me better,

plus, anyone else finds the UE cables used on the universals as absolute trash ? they are too hard, they deform easly, and they kept applying pressure on the earphones when i wore them,

 

[ZARIM]

I will recomand CK100 because it's not only detailed and it has great soundstage, instrument separation and female vocals really shine on these. It's bass goes deep and has more amount than UM3x with great clarity. It also very open and spacious with rich midrange and extended highs. So overall if you want good soundstage, clarity and punchy bass then CK100 is great buy.

 

[jnewman]

I really like my CK100s but I have not heard the other two IEMs you mentioned, so that's not much help. If you want to listen to pulsing bass, the CK100 is not for you - if you want to listen to music with the bass where it belongs and not walking all over everything else, they might be a good choice.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really like my CK100s but I have not heard the other two IEMs you mentioned, so that's not much help. If you want to listen to pulsing bass, the CK100 is not for you - if you want to listen to music with the bass where it belongs and not walking all over everything else, they might be a good choice.

Sounds like my kind of earphone. Mmmmmm... Can you comment on how accurately they display pitches, jnewman?

 

[jyle_t]

honestly i can never understand why people find CK100's bass more than said IEM. All of the IEMs i've heard so far has more bass than it.

Its hardly a subjective opinion, im sure a frequency graph of it was here somewhere, and someone compared it to ER4S's graph, that has to mean something right?

then again, someone's gonna come up with the convenient "everyone hears differently" notion, so you decide it yourself.

 

[toughnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyle_t /img/forum/go_quote.gif honestly i can never understand why people find CK100's bass more than said IEM. All of the IEMs i've heard so far has more bass than it. Its hardly a subjective opinion, im sure a frequency graph of it was here somewhere, and someone compared it to ER4S's graph, that has to mean something right? then again, someone's gonna come up with the convenient "everyone hears differently" notion, so you decide it yourself.

Do u have good fit? CK100 not a bass monster to begin with though. Just like SRH840 headphone (i'm checking on it

), some say it LACK bass but then some say it's BASS HEAVY. And it's a HEADPHONE. Imagine what can happen with IEMs due to different fitting, ear shapes or watever reasons applicable

 

[mvw2]

Fit and seal can play a very big roll, especially with a IEM. The dB drop on the low end can be quite substantial even with a "good" poor fit. I currently have the TF10 and am waiting on better tips to arrive in the mail (ordered Olives and Comply). The crap foam tip it came with is the only one capable of creating a good seal for me. All the other tips create decent leaky seals. The bass response change is substantial, and it's not heavily noticeable that the seal isn't great other them poor isolation.

I think the CK100 does come with foam tips, and I have seen it mentioned that they are at least halfway decent. Of course I can't say if an individual is using them correctly or not.

The amount and type of bass is subjective too. For example, one could break down bass into several categories and discuss each in good detail. These could include

1. frequency response (does it go to 50Hz, 40Hz, 30Hz?)
2. midbass presence (+100Hz through lower midrange))
3. low bass response (<100Hz)
4. may even include sub-bass response (visceral bass of 20Hz-40Hz)
5. bass weight (light, crisp or thick and heavy)
6. bass detail (smoothed over or well articulated)
7. bass impact (laid back or punchy)
8. capable bass response (how low before EQing can't help it)

You get the idea. There's many aspects to sound, and the same could be said for midrange and treble too. In the end, one persons good bass is another person's poor bass, and strong and weak is relative to a wide variety of factors including preference, fitment, EQing, and amping.

For example, I used to own the ER4S. I considered it to have a decent amount of bass. It was capable to around 60Hz before heavily rolling off. However, information above this was well presented, full, and articulate. The ER4S responded very well to EQing too. Things like weight, detail, and impact was good for everything above 60Hz, although one may prefer to add a little EQing to it. It requires an amp for good low frequency energy and control. Fitment and a good seal is very easy to get for most folks. In essence, how would person A and person B describe the bass response of such an IEM? It may depend upon if the person uses an amp with the IEM as well as which amp. It may depend upon if the person uses EQing or bass boost with the IEM. It may depend upon listening preferences (rap versus pop). It may depend upon what the person is used to (bass heavy headphones or bass light headphones).

Too many factors.

A good review or explaination really does need to cover all aspects in some detail or at the very least point out key, unique aspects. For example, the PFE IEM has pretty much effortless dynamics and a very energetic note. Notes are also very light and crisp where notes start and stop on a dime. It's an aspect that's unique to that IEM that I haven't really heard an equivalent in any other earphone I've used. These are key and unique features to the PFE headphone that make it stand out from other, comparable options.

A lot of people really don't go into such details when discussing headphones and comparing headphones. Some details are presented, but many times information is too generalized to transmit a really meaningful representation. For example, how is the CK100 light on bass? Light on note weight? Light on frequency response? Light on energy or impact of presentation? Is it actually light or perceptively light?

I'm just rambling. Forgive me.

 

[mvw2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aevum /img/forum/go_quote.gif plus, anyone else finds the UE cables used on the universals as absolute trash ? they are too hard, they deform easly, and they kept applying pressure on the earphones when i wore them,

They have a bit of memory to them (not talking about near the tips). Frankly, I don't know if the folds from the original packaging will every go away.

I do agree that the feel of the cord is goofy relative to a lot of the other products out there. However, I also find the cord to be the best I've used in terms of microphonics. It actually transmits less noise then any other cord I've used.

It's not the worse I've seen though. It seems decently durable, and there are reliefs built in which a surprising number of earphones fall short with. If you want to see a funny cord, you should grab a pair of ER4S IEMs. The cord looks ancient, very old school, but very beefy. They feel like they should be attached to a rather substantial full-sized can rather then two tiny units. Those had a bit of memory too, but they were build like tanks. The TF10 cord feels a bit more...fragile, although, it is a far cry from bad in that respect.

p.s. I too am looking at the IE8. If you have the availability, I'd suggest toying with some EQing. You can take out a lot of the coloration and goofiness in the presentation if you balance out the response.

 

[kwang411]

I have both CK100 and IE8.

If you want clarity and transparency, CK100 is for you. It beats IE8 hands down.
Do you EQ? If you do, CK100 has more than enough bass for most genres. The bass is definitely NOT non-existent.

CK100 is more balanced than IE8, but IE8 is more fun to listen to. From what i've read, TF10 has a Vshaped sound, so i'd say CK100 would still be more balanced.

 

[mvw2]

The TF10 in my use doesn't have a V shaped sound, but it does have a lower midrange bump that is unnatural sounding.

My concern is realism. I have heard the IE8 as being described realistic in more then one instance, but I have never heard the CK100 as being described as real. This goes beyond simple transparency and clarity.

In your judgement, which sounds more life-like? Are either good enough to fool you into thinking that a sound you hear in the music (or whatever else you listen to) was real? I want to find something that good. The Yuin OK1 I have is capable of doing this. I haven't used a IEM yet that was capable of pulling this off. I'd like to find one though.

 

[electropop]

Very good points mvw2. People do seem to generalize certain aspects of sound too easily.

Natural pitches are more of a key feature to sounding natural than clarity or transparency.. Although I still think that CK100 would be to my liking, were it euphoric or natural sound that describes it. (I just like my AD2000s too much..)