[AndyRx7]

So I thought I'd voice a random thought I had in the shower this morning (where I do most of my creative thinking - go figure)...

It seems that most everyone using their ipods with a nice headphone/amp combo use the Sik Din line-out (or the Pocketdock, but that apparently has quality problems from what I've read). But doesn't it generate a weakpoint to use a relatively cheap $20 line out cable and jack (since the Sik Din necessitates using its 7 inch cable and mini jack) - I mean, Sik probably isn't using very expensive stuff in that thing! I've seen pictures of people's setups, where the Sik cable is joined to an expensive mini-to-mini interconnect, but what's the point of that when you're using the cheapo stock Sik cable as well? It seems to me that otherwise nice setups using the Sik Din are just begging for an upgrade.

Am I missing something here? Is there some reason inherent to the ipod internals that a higher-quality line-out is unnecessary? Or is the Sik cable actually a nice piece? (keep in mind I don't own one... yet, and I haven't seen on in person)

Anyways, what I'm thinking is, what's to prevent someone from taking apart a Sik Din and replacing the cable with a higher-quality item and jack? Is there any reason why this would be difficult - would one need special tools or something to deal with the connection to the ipod dock-connector terminal? Even without the Din, if one could figure out how to get the line-out from the ipod connector terminal (not sure if I'm using the appropriate term here), why not just custom-build a line out cable from scratch? I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard to get at the dock-connector plug without a bunch of plastic surrounding it, ie. pilfer a plug from any given ipod accessory cable. If one was willing to dissamble an apple dock, it looks like that part would be relatively easy.

Any thoughts?

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRx7 So I thought I'd voice a random thought I had in the shower this morning (where I do most of my creative thinking - go figure)... It seems that most everyone using their ipods with a nice headphone/amp combo use the Sik Din line-out (or the Pocketdock, but that apparently has quality problems from what I've read). But doesn't it generate a weakpoint to use a relatively cheap $20 line out cable and jack (since the Sik Din necessitates using its 7 inch cable and mini jack) - I mean, Sik probably isn't using very expensive stuff in that thing! I've seen pictures of people's setups, where the Sik cable is joined to an expensive mini-to-mini interconnect, but what's the point of that when you're using the cheapo stock Sik cable as well? It seems to me that otherwise nice setups using the Sik Din are just begging for an upgrade. Am I missing something here? Is there some reason inherent to the ipod internals that a higher-quality line-out is unnecessary? Or is the Sik cable actually a nice piece? (keep in mind I don't own one... yet, and I haven't seen on in person) Anyways, what I'm thinking is, what's to prevent someone from taking apart a Sik Din and replacing the cable with a higher-quality item and jack? Is there any reason why this would be difficult - would one need special tools or something to deal with the connection to the ipod dock-connector terminal? Even without the Din, if one could figure out how to get the line-out from the ipod connector terminal (not sure if I'm using the appropriate term here), why not just custom-build a line out cable from scratch? I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard to get at the dock-connector plug without a bunch of plastic surrounding it, ie. pilfer a plug from any given ipod accessory cable. If one was willing to dissamble an apple dock, it looks like that part would be relatively easy. Any thoughts?

i understand your thoughts...but, let's take this even further...why not open the ipd up and replace all the low-quality parts? the problem (apart from the obvious stupidity of that last suggestion) is that i'm not sure anyone knows exactly what the limiting part or parts of the ipod system are. where is sound quality compromised the most? i don't know...i don't know if anyone knows this. but what we can do is compare line out vs. headphone out, and for most, the line out sounds better attached to a headphone amp. yes, one could mod a sik din, but i'm not sure how much that will improve the sound...

 

[AndyRx7]

Good points... I guess I am operating under the assumption that the line out available straight from the dock-connector terminal is of higher quality than taken advantage of by the Sik cable. I'm sure this is a tenious assumption, but I'm not sure how to figure it out any further.

The one thing I can think of is, for people that own both Sik Din and apple docks, is there any noticeable difference between the apple dock line-out and the Din? I guess a subtle difference might not be immediately easy to detect however.

I suppose the only way to find out might be to do it!

 

[TWIFOSP]

Yea, which is why I didn't get a sik din in the first place.

But the pocketdock has it's own problems.

From the forums of Dr. Xin
Xins sik din mini to mini (sik I think realized there was a market from this after seeing this, as they are coming out with one

http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=85

But he didn't replace the entire cable.

Hrm, I have a spare dock that the lineout doesn't work on. I need to figure out how to take it apart and see if I can't salvage the parts. I do notice that the iPod dock itself has a better sounding line out than the pocketdock.

Btw, andy, what kind of rx7 do you have?

<--- 93 Base with gt35/40 single

 

[jpr703]

I would suspect that there could be some sound quality improvement made by improving the line-out connection, but I'm not sure how much.

If someone wanted to try this, I'd recommend making a high-quality, solid connector that consisted of Apple's proprietary connector on one side and two good female RCA jacks on the other side.

Maybe this thread should be re-directed to the DIY forum.

 

[AndyRx7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWIFOSP Hrm, I have a spare dock that the lineout doesn't work on. I need to figure out how to take it apart and see if I can't salvage the parts.

Let us know what you find if you do! Looks to me like the rubber base of the dock can be pried off as a first step...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWIFOSP Btw, andy, what kind of rx7 do you have? <--- 93 Base with gt35/40 single

serious hardware!!

I come from the total opposite end of the 7 world; 82 NA 12A with Dellorto carb, etc.

You must be on rx7club... my name is "silverrocket" there, although I don't spend much time there anymore (used to be a MAJOR addiction lol).

 

[AndyRx7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpr703 If someone wanted to try this, I'd recommend making a high-quality, solid connector that consisted of Apple's proprietary connector on one side and two good female RCA jacks on the other side.

I wonder if it would be possible to source the Apple connector from somewhere, rather than pilfer it from an existing dock or what not. I suppose the first step is to figure out which pin(s) on the connector relates to the line out - maybe someone has a diagram available.

 

[TWIFOSP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRx7 You must be on rx7club... my name is "silverrocket" there, although I don't spend much time there anymore (used to be a MAJOR addiction lol).

Yup, twifosp there too.

Though I don't go anymore. Yea, it was worse than head-fi for a while

I had to stop going. Not long shortly after I did, my work proxy started banning forums anyway. They haven't got to head-fi yet

 

[bigshot]

No problem here using a Pocket Dock with a 3g. Why go to all that bother ripping a sik apart and risking bad connections? Just get a Pocket Dock and send it back if it doesn't work. I would like to see where everyone is reading about problems with the Pocket Dock. I suspect it's a FOAF thing.

See ya
Steve

 

[sygyzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot No problem here using a Pocket Dock with a 3g. Why go to all that bother ripping a sik apart and risking bad connections? Just get a Pocket Dock and send it back if it doesn't work. I would like to see where everyone is reading about problems with the Pocket Dock. I suspect it's a FOAF thing. See ya Steve

No, it's a flaw with all Pocket Docks. If your iPod has the static problem, it will come through on the PD. In fact, I cannot hear the problem unless I am using the PD. It's almost like it's enhanced on there.

 

[bigshot]

Are you saying that the Pocket Dock reveals a problem with the iPod itself? If that's the case, I would think you would want to get one just to know whether there is a problem with the iPod while it's still under warranty and can be fixed. If the Pocket Dock reveals the problem, then who's to say that some future accessory that uses the dock port won't too?

If I spent $300 on something and a $30 accessory revealed a problem with it, I wouldn't just throw away the accessory... I'd make sure that the source of the problem was fixed.

See ya
Steve

 

[TWIFOSP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sygyzy No, it's a flaw with all Pocket Docks. If your iPod has the static problem, it will come through on the PD. In fact, I cannot hear the problem unless I am using the PD. It's almost like it's enhanced on there.

I can't confirm this, but I suspect it is due to the sik din having some kind of resistor that the PD doesn't have.

Reason being is that I have the stepped attenuator for the shure e5. Out of the headphone jack, or line out, if the volume is LOW on the attenuator, but high on the amp or ipod, the static or hard drive issue never goes through. No matter how high I crank the volume otherwise, the stepped attenuator completely masks the problem. I was about to sell my 4g on ebay and get another one, but I found this out with the stepped attenuator and discovered I could live with it.

I also never experience the problem out of the iDock line out, no matter what I have attached to it.

I've tried all sorts of wacky fixes, but the only fix (which is really just a work around) is seems to be the stepped attenuator. YMMV.

 

[labrat]

deleted.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Are you saying that the Pocket Dock reveals a problem with the iPod itself? If that's the case, I would think you would want to get one just to know whether there is a problem with the iPod while it's still under warranty and can be fixed. If the Pocket Dock reveals the problem, then who's to say that some future accessory that uses the dock port won't too? If I spent $300 on something and a $30 accessory revealed a problem with it, I wouldn't just throw away the accessory... I'd make sure that the source of the problem was fixed. See ya Steve

steve,
the problem is only with the PD and the 4G ipods. you're right that there is certainly something going on with the ipods that hasn't been addressed by apple. but i had a defective ipod in which the sound problem was heard through the headphone out and the PD. i returned the ipod and the new one didn't have the problem out the headphone but only the PD. the problem went away with the sik din. so, even if there is something going on with the ipod, the ipod-PD combo is not as friendly as the ipod-sik din.