[Whitigir]

While I technically fully agree with your points I am asking myself how far are we then from a desktop stack solution yet existing today?
So where's the frontier between maximum mobile stacking and desktop setup?

Tbh the first thought I had seeing D16 was : Ibasso is producing a competition product for Shanling H7.
And actually I got curious cause I bought DC Elite Dongle before and was so stunned about the performance of this dongle that I thought D16 could be a bridge device with SQ performance between DX320 and DX320 Max and enough amping power with ca 1 Watts not needing an extra amp.
So a really mobile on the go TOTL DaC/Amp device.
But it's turning out for me it's having a DAC-Amp design of Cayin N7 (without the DAP part obviously) and Noone is really advertising it as a standalone device fed from any source but preferably only within a stack of more dedicated partly new devices creating a mobile TOTL stack.
Interesting too but not what I expected before

Interesting points you are bringing up here. Here is my take on it, and it comes from personal experiences.

Spoiler: Digital Conversion

Digital conversion or DAC, and from all of my researched of DIY a DAC. They runs from Low voltage as mentioned from my previous Post. However, most of the current DACs on the market are using Off the shelves chip IC such as Cirrus/AKM/ESS, and they are Intergrated with Analog stages that require high voltage swing for the optimized performance, which often goes up to 15-25V depending on the maker of a desktop stack. Even though these chips can also operate at low voltage output such as 5-8V which satisfying the design languages of Portable battery operable devices, they are never optimized with, and only optimized from Desktop design.

In my knowledges, If a DAC can purely run off from battery, and actually, it would best be running off from Pure low voltage sources of 3.5V average. Now, this isnt possible unless you go for Discrete design like Ibasso. Then what will we be lacking ?

The analog stages! and the amplification stages

Now, for the DAC side, a Line out is best be <3.0V highest line voltages, and best be <1.2V for a proper and best voltage line. Does any of those screaming for a desktop design of 25V inside ? and be plugging in a 110-220V outlet ? Not at all.

Then the next up, the amplification stage

Spoiler: Amplification stage

For amplification stages, and when you run off the lowest voltage of <1.2V line level, you will need a Pre-Amp for a proper loud stereo system. Though, the D16 has a proper Line out Stage on the high side already , which is 3.3V with Low gain. Now, why did I advise using Low gain ? because this is the highest for a proper line Out, which will actually bypassing the need for a Preamp stage, and that put the D16 to be an integrated DAC+Preamp even when you use Line out. That means, you will only need an Amp stage here

While it is logical and technically having Desktop performances in a DAC, due to all of it fundamentals are satisfied with: Low voltage, Batteries sources . Asking for a portable amplifier to Stand up against the Big Boys of Desktop amplifier ? Impossible

Lets dive in a bit of Amplifications and pure amplifier. Power is never enough, you rather have more power than less power. A tube amplifier have to run off AC transformer of Anode 300- 450V. Could you run it off a battery ? Sure, if you use a Tesla Pack from Electric vehicle

Now, the Voltage Swings, most of Desktop amplifier are running off a minimal of >100V. Some is a little less powerful and has 60V voltage swing. So then, Can you do a proper 60V swings minimum for a balanced amplifications, that means a minimum of +/-15V rails differentials. Yes, You can do so if you Raise up your battery from 3.8V toward 5X more ? However, you wouldnt have a proper comparison to a Desktop either, because the desktop is running from 110V down into 15V for example.

We are into the same thing here "you rather have more power than less". You rather run from higher voltage and regulate it down to lower voltage rather than from a very low voltage into a much higher voltage. We will be talking about a Ball, whether it is a Bowling Ball or an Air Balloon case

My final thought ? The D16 satisfied all of the engineering specs for being a Top of the line DAC that is competitive toward Desktop DAC. However, that is Line level quality. Portable quality ? D16 will not be up to the challenge against the PB5 from it technicality alone from the amplification sides. Lets dive into amplification differences

Spoiler: D16 Amps vs Maxes and others

D16 has similar amp architecture as Max, which is Super class A, and also similar to PB5 with Super class A, but it similarities ends right there. When talking about amplifications, we gotta talk about what is an amplifier ? Basically, it take an input level, then using it own Power, and Amplifying the input level with it, then output a much more powerful signals

Then we have to talk about Voltage swings:

1/ Maxes, and all Maxes are running off of a 7.4V per 2 battery packs. This allows Max has Twice the Pure Powerful Voltage swing than lets say even D320, which runs off a single cell of 3.5V

2/ D16 is similar, it has 1 single pack of Batter, and therefore it voltage swing have to be raised up to have a powerful output. Ibasso is amazing with their own amplification and almost perfection in portable amplification. You can witness it all from Ibasso other devices, very powerful and Great quality. Let's take D260 for an example.

3/ So, is D16 a good DAC/Amp ? no doubt about it. But it abilities expand ways more than that. With a proper amplifier , the better your amplifier is, the better the D16 perform.

Let me sum it up this way. The D16 is Top Tier DAC converter, and the better your amplification is, the better the D16 will perform. Even as far as my 300B Western Electric Transformer coupled output, it scales up crazily with D16, far surpassing my desktop PC + Desktop DAC chain.

Does that mean the D16 is limited in it amp out put ? Yes, it is, because what portable system are not limited by batteries as a source ? unless you are telling me that you run Tesla Battery packs ? Then it is no longer portable.

Does that mean D16 is lacking behind other DAC/Amp ? nope, not at all. If my D16 can stand Toes to Toes against 320M (5% differences, but the analog performances easily erasing these matters) , then I have no doubt that the D16 is a powerful Portable DAC/Amp in itself

I think everyone would agree that once you have an Ideal Line quality, only the Amp will be the main essential thing in your chain. Unfortunately, Amplifiers, the sky is the limits, and Portable amps will never ever be able to catch up to Desktop amplifiers. Especially if you are using IEMS, portable will suffice. This is where you would want someone like @twister6 to give you a proper comparison of D16 VS Dx260 or R8II as an example. For my use cases, I am all into stereos and Fullsize headphones.

 

[Loftprojection]

I'll be comparing it to other flagship portable DAC/amps I've tried, like the Fiio Q7 and xDuoo XD05 Pro.

I can’t wait to read this

 

[Whitigir]

I can’t wait to read this

Same here can’t wait for his impressions.

 

[Z_Showmaster]

Loving the D16 as the DAC/AMP for Aroma Audio Fei Wan. I hear D16 to be very organic and full sounding which helps Fei Wan U-shaped tonality move towards a W-shape instead, lifting up the mids and giving the treble a more natural and weighted timbre. Lovely synergy here.

This seemed really positive about D16 as an all-in-one. I too use mine as a standalone. It's high-resolution, without announcing overtly that it's solid-state. I don't think it would leave anyone wanting for fidelity or power up to a Hifiman HEK or Arya.

So rather than viewing it as having a deficit alone, look at it as having room to scale. D16 gives you 100%, not 80% or 90%, on its own. But if you add on an optional amp later, you might achieve 150%.

 

[aaf evo]

This seemed really positive about D16 as an all-in-one. I too use mine as a standalone. It's high-resolution, without announcing overtly that it's solid-state. I don't think it would leave anyone wanting for fidelity or power up to a Hifiman HEK or Arya.

So rather than viewing it as having a deficit alone, look at it as having room to scale. D16 gives you 100%, not 80% or 90%, on its own. But if you add on an optional amp later, you might achieve 150%.

Oh 100%, the D16 is a very capable DAC/AMP by itself, but I do prefer it being used as a DAC only and letting the PB5 amp take over, that is pure magic for my ears. I am really enjoying the trio of the DX260, D16 and the PB5.

 

[WarrenS]

This seemed really positive about D16 as an all-in-one. I too use mine as a standalone. It's high-resolution, without announcing overtly that it's solid-state. I don't think it would leave anyone wanting for fidelity or power up to a Hifiman HEK or Arya.

So rather than viewing it as having a deficit alone, look at it as having room to scale. D16 gives you 100%, not 80% or 90%, on its own. But if you add on an optional amp later, you might achieve 150%.

That is interesting to know but I have a dilemma. I don't think the D16 has enough power to run Hifiman HEKV2'S (Non Stealth) to their limits which is my preference?

Amazingly enough, my 300MAX Ti manages the task beautifully but only just and that is taking into consideration that I always factor in at least 20% headroom with the volume

 

[Z_Showmaster]

That is interesting to know but I have a dilemma. I don't think the D16 has enough power to run Hifiman HEKV2'S (Non Stealth) to their limits which is my preference?

Amazingly enough, my 300MAX Ti manages the task beautifully but only just and that is taking into consideration that I always factor in at least 20% headroom with the volume

Aye, non-stealth might prove an issue. I personally reckon you could squeak by but D16 isn't a source one might consider "loud" sounding if you get what I mean. I think it's that "loud" aspect that particularly wakes the V2 up from a source.

It's the HEK V3/Stealth, Arya Stealth and Organic that I'd feel safe recommending D16 for. I'm personally running the Utopia - which requires synergy but not power - on it, in low gain.

 

[Whitigir]

Oh 100%, the D16 is a very capable DAC/AMP by itself, but I do prefer it being used as a DAC only and letting the PB5 amp take over, that is pure magic for my ears. I am really enjoying the trio of the DX260, D16 and the PB5.

I don’t want people to take it wrongly that D16 is not capable as a stand alone like they did with UsB vs Coax.

Please don’t

But honestly, the magic comes alive with PB5!!! Both became an inseparable stack that anyone could dreamt off

 

[WarrenS]

Aye, non-stealth might prove an issue. I personally reckon you could squeak by but D16 isn't a source one might consider "loud" sounding if you get what I mean. I think it's that "loud" aspect that particularly wakes the V2 up from a source.

It's the HEK V3/Stealth, Arya Stealth and Organic that I'd feel safe recommending D16 for. I'm personally running the Utopia - which requires synergy but not power - on it, in low gain.

I think you are right! The non-stealth is a difficult one and definitely scales with power.

I am just staggered at how well the 300Max Ti drives them being a portable device.

Saying that, I had an Astell&Kern Kann Ultra and that burst into tears and started to cook at moderate volume levels

 

[WarrenS]

But honestly, the magic comes alive with PB5!!! Both became an inseparable stack that anyone could dreamt off

You are not helping!

In all honesty, do you reckon 300MAX Ti + PB5 will make a great synergy pairing? I can't buy a D16 as well because I have just started a savings fund for a 340MAX Ti

 

[Loftprojection]

I don’t want people to take it wrongly that D16 is not capable as a stand alone like they did with UsB vs Coax.

Please don’t

But honestly, the magic comes alive with PB5!!! Both became an inseparable stack that anyone could dreamt off

Imagine if you were using a Woo WA8 instead of PB5, if you love tube sound you might faint listening to that combo!

 

[hongky]

But it's turning out for me it's having a DAC-Amp design of Cayin N7 (without the DAP part obviously) and Noone is really advertising it as a standalone device fed from any source but preferably only within a stack of more dedicated partly new devices creating a mobile TOTL stack.
Interesting too but not what I expected before

It would be interesting to compare 320Max-D16-PB5 against N7-PB5 with N7 having advantage of not using USB/Coax transport

 

[Whitigir]

May be you can relate @aaf evo

 

[Z_Showmaster]

It would be interesting to compare 320Max-D16-PB5 against N7-PB5 with N7 having advantage of not using USB/Coax transport

I did stack N7 with the PB5 and it is incredible... A very different experience to the D16 as a source. The N7-PB5 is a texture king but a bit drier, while the D16-PB5 leads the way for atmosphere, ambience and space. Epic presentations from each, N7 or D16 as a PB5 source will suit different moods of the week. And then I'll have to try D16 feeding C9 next...

May be you can relate @aaf evo

 

[aaf evo]

May be you can relate @aaf evo

Hahaha. I just ordered the green leather case for the DX260 so they all match.