[Altoids]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JES /img/forum/go_quote.gif No offense, but I think I'll bank on a successor to the X5 before I bank on firmware of any significance for the Zune.

The Zune interface is actually the best I've ever seen. Beats the dog s@#$ out of the X5, and I love the X5. The point is, if you're looking for something to invest in, pick the Zune. With Microsoft behind it, it will eventually have as many accessories to choose from as the Ipod, and if you pay attention to the handful of Zune forums already up, you'll see that independent coders are rushing to hack the thing. They've already enabled the Zune to be used as an external HD.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altoids /img/forum/go_quote.gif but is simply inferior tech at this point in its life

Again, I disagree. The only inferiority it has is its screen.

My long experience with the Zen Vision:M and the limited experience with the Zune do not change my opinion that the X5 sounds the best of them through the headphone-out. It has a warm signature that's still quite detailed, deep, and luscious. The bass is prominent, with nice depth and clarity: it was the best of the three in this aspect for me. The mids are smooth and the highs (with a touch of sparkle) are just right: it doesn't attenuate or accentuate them noticeably. The X5 sounds absolutely amazing for my main genres, generally grouped to trance and rock.

The Zen Vision:M was mostly the same detail-wise, but was also rather bright. Comparatively, it lacked some bass in favor of some prominent highs. I didn't really enjoy this aspect for my music. On some tracks, the highs actually became painful and I had to apply a subtractive equalization of -6 and -2 dB on the last two bands of the equalizer for the Zen Vision:M to sound decent. The Zen Vision:M sounds great but no better than the X5 in any aspect IMO; the only true difference was the sound signature. The Zen Vision:M was the only player that I tested of the three to have hissed.

The Zune is pretty musical but kind of flat. It's lively but doesn't have any compelling zones of the frequency that stood out in particular or helped to carry the music. Overall, I felt it was significantly louder volume-for-volume. Had it been a few months ago, I may have thought that the Zune sounded the best for this reason. However, it too possessed no technical sonic aspects that trampled its competition. Its sound signature was merely different. It's as silent as the X5 though and I imagine it'd really fit vocals well.

I own the X5, have owned the Zen Vision:M for about two weeks, and have tried the Zune for about 15 minutes at Best Buy (my X5 was there too, so I could A-B with similar-bitrate music). I used an ER4P to gauge the strengths and weaknesses (which weren't really present aside from sound signature) between each player.

What was the nature of your experience with these products?

Also, the X5 does not have a bass roll-off for me anymore. When connected to powered speakers (which is what I assume to be low impedance) there is a noticeable modicum of bass. However, when I connect my Go-Vibe to the line-out with any headphone, the bass is there, and deep and super-tight as usual.

I have concluded from my own experience and a particular post in the forums that the X5's line-out suffers from too small a capacitor, effectively acting as a high-pass filter on low-impedance connections. It is VERY much akin to the problems plaguing some of the 4G iPods. When higher impedances are introduced into the circuit, the bass magically reappears and it's pretty much better than ever.

This is why the relatively small number of people on Head-Fi that have the X5 and an amp, and use the line-out with them, do not have much to complain about.

 

[gaineso]

I have never even seen an X5 much less heard one so no comment.

However, I have 3 Creative Zens and I have to disagree on the overly bright sound. Nano+, Sleek Photo and Vision:M 60 all sound very full, smooth, great bass and flowing full highs. Phones are KSC35 or HD600 with Total Airhead amp.

I have not spent much time with a pod and never with my own music and cans, so I can only say that what I heard at the Apple Store was delightfully crappy. They definitely know how to demo a product to make it sound its worst.

And my music selections are Jazz/Blues, Classic and Acid Rock, Classic Country, and symphonic. All take me to the "lost in the music" on the Zens.

Well, maybe not the Nano, but it is still kick tail amazing and a single AAA battery means it'll play until I smash it or my boat sinks. Yeah, it's the one I use in the boat.

 

[JES]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altoids /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Zune interface is actually the best I've ever seen. Beats the dog s@#$ out of the X5, and I love the X5. The point is, if you're looking for something to invest in, pick the Zune. With Microsoft behind it, it will eventually have as many accessories to choose from as the Ipod, and if you pay attention to the handful of Zune forums already up, you'll see that independent coders are rushing to hack the thing. They've already enabled the Zune to be used as an external HD.

I am looking to invest. But all of my criteria point me in the direction of the X5. It WILL be my first DAP, having to this point enjoyed my music on my home system or in the car (300M has a pretty good stock stereo). As far as accessories go, there's an ample base out there for the X5 (ample enough for me).

I'm hesitant to jump on the Zune bandwagon at this point. But one things for sure. I'm gonna' watch the Zune based upon your recommendation and the other posts I've read. I can afford to experiment a little here, so if the X5 "fails" me, I can afford to do something else.

And besides ... I can't wait to mess around with Rockbox.

 

[Altoids]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I disagree. The only inferiority it has is its screen. My long experience with the Zen Vision:M and the limited experience with the Zune do not change my opinion that the X5 sounds the best of them through the headphone-out. It has a warm signature that's still quite detailed, deep, and luscious. The bass is prominent, with nice depth and clarity: it was the best of the three in this aspect for me. The mids are smooth and the highs (with a touch of sparkle) are just right: it doesn't attenuate or accentuate them noticeably. The X5 sounds absolutely amazing for my main genres, generally grouped to trance and rock. I own the X5, have owned the Zen Vision:M for about two weeks, and have tried the Zune for about 15 minutes at Best Buy (my X5 was there too, so I could A-B with similar-bitrate music). I used an ER4P to gauge the strengths and weaknesses (which weren't really present aside from sound signature) between each player. What was the nature of your experience with these products?

I've owned the X5L for about a year, which I bought to replace my H120 (R.I.P.

). My best friend owns a Vision: M, so I've had plenty of time on that, and pretty much everyone under 30 has clocked substantial ear time on a Ipod whether they own one or not. The Zune I listened to for about twenty minutes in Virgin, then another ten or so at CompUSA (they aren't as nice about letting you audition the merchandise).

I'll get this over with quick since everyone knows how it ends anyway. I don't remember much about the H120 sound. I did most of my listening through e2cs and an unamped Sony MDR700 (I know), so they wouldn't count for much anyway. Never even rockboxed it...what a waste. Anyway, the X5 with flat EQ through E4cs sound, to my ears, simply anemic now. A-Bing with the Zen Vision:M revealed not just the bass rolloff, but a lack of force across the board. Its one strong point would be the high-end, only because the mid-low end on the Vision was so full-bodied that it could slightly -slightly- obscure higher frequencies.

After an afternoon on this forum you'd think the Ipod sounded like 11AM at a construction site, but the sound from the 5.5 Gen models is fine. Read: Fine. Not spectacular, not terrible. Bass could have more punch, vocals more grab, instrument separation could be tighter. Still, perfect consumer item. I don't want one.

The Zune. I wanted to hate it. I -want- to hate it. But hell, just go listen to one. If you have E4cs especially; it just sounds right. Everything separates perfectly. No, the soundstage isn't huge, but it's intimate. On the X5, it felt cramped. With the Zune, listening to Ilya felt like lounging in the back of a jazz club; The Libertines like front-row in your buddy's garage. To me, the thing sounded how something I toss in my pocket and run out the door with should sound only in my dreams.

I won't go into its other strengths and weaknesses because, frankly, I don't care about them. I won't watch video on it, and I won't be buying any music from any online stores, ever. I don't bother with portable amps (talk about defeating the purpose) so I don't need a line-out. For me, it's a stand-alone audio playback device, and in that capacity it excels. But all this talking, while fun, is pointless. GO AND LISTEN YOURSELF. GO. GO. GO DO IT. GO HURRY UP AND DO IT. OR DON'T. GODOITTHOUGH.

P.S. If anyone still wants to bother with the X5, I've got an X5L I'd love to get rid of (so I can buy a Zune). And it's fairly new, since I had to send my original back after the jog-wheel broke.

P.P.S. Lossless files are a waste of space on portables.

 

[JES]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altoids /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... I won't go into its other strengths and weaknesses because, frankly, I don't care about them. I won't watch video on it, and I won't be buying any music from any online stores, ever. I don't bother with portable amps (talk about defeating the purpose) so I don't need a line-out. For me, it's a stand-alone audio playback device, and in that capacity it excels. But all this talking, while fun, is pointless. GO AND LISTEN YOURSELF. GO. GO. GO DO IT. GO HURRY UP AND DO IT. OR DON'T. GODOITTHOUGH. P.S. If anyone still wants to bother with the X5, I've got an X5L I'd love to get rid of (so I can buy a Zune). And it's fairly new, since I had to send my original back after the jog-wheel broke. P.P.S. Lossless files are a waste of space on portables.

Hmmmmm ........

One question that I couldn't readily ascertain from my 1/2 hour of research ... Does the Zune have a line out???

 

[3X0]

X5 sounds anemic!?

I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe, as it clearly sounded fuller than the ZVM to my ears and about the same as the Zune. The X5 definitely emphasized bass more than the Vision:M. There was no contest in that aspect.

What was your X5 setup? Headphones, amp, nature of interconnects, line-out or headphone-out, et cetera? Because right now your X5 setup sounds like it's a lot worse than mine, almost a different player, for whatever reason (I mean no offense in saying this, but what you're saying doesn't sound like the X5 at all).

 

[mucklechumps]

What was your X5 setup? Headphones, amp, nature of interconnects, line-out or headphone-out, et cetera? Because right now your X5 setup sounds like it's a lot worse than mine, almost a different player, for whatever reason (I mean no offense in saying this, but what you're saying doesn't sound like the X5 at all).[/QUOTE]

My X5L sounds fantastic too. I have been experimenting with a Qables line-out cable and my informal (no RMAA testing) results show no difference in audio quality between the headphone out with volume to 40 and the line-out. The line out doesnt sound worse, but definitely not better.
I'm waiting to test with a Headphonia amp I ordered. I've been using the headphone amp on my Sound Devices 442 audio mixer, and UE-10 in ear monitors, as well as Sony 7506 drivers installed in aviator headphones ( I use them for work).

 

[JES]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucklechumps /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... My X5L sounds fantastic too. I have been experimenting with a Qables line-out cable and my informal (no RMAA testing) results show no difference in audio quality between the headphone out with volume to 40 and the line-out. The line out doesnt sound worse, but definitely not better. I'm waiting to test with a Headphonia amp I ordered. I've been using the headphone amp on my Sound Devices 442 audio mixer, and UE-10 in ear monitors, as well as Sony 7506 drivers installed in aviator headphones ( I use them for work).

Post your results ... I'd like to know how it sounds!

 

[mucklechumps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JES /img/forum/go_quote.gif Post your results ... I'd like to know how it sounds!

QUOTE: Post your results ... I'd like to know how it sounds!

I sure will! BTW, How do I get a quote to show up in a box like everyone does?

 

[mucklechumps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucklechumps /img/forum/go_quote.gif QUOTE: Post your results ... I'd like to know how it sounds! I sure will! BTW, How do I get a quote to show up in a box like everyone does?

BTW, How do I get a quote to show up in a box like everyone does?

I guess I just did, but I'm not sure how!!

 

[JES]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucklechumps /img/forum/go_quote.gif BTW, How do I get a quote to show up in a box like everyone does? I guess I just did, but I'm not sure how!!

Press the quote button at the bottom right of the post ... like you did

 

[Altoids]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif X5 sounds anemic!? I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe, as it clearly sounded fuller than the ZVM to my ears and about the same as the Zune. The X5 definitely emphasized bass more than the Vision:M. There was no contest in that aspect.

What was your X5 setup? Headphones, amp, nature of interconnects, line-out or headphone-out, et cetera? Because right now your X5 setup sounds like it's a lot worse than mine, almost a different player, for whatever reason (I mean no offense in saying this, but what you're saying doesn't sound like the X5 at all).[/QUOTE

My setup up was my X5L and a pair of E4cs. Files were mostly 320kb/s mp3s, 500kb/s OGGs and a few Wvpack files. When I A/Bed between the Vision, I tried a flat parametric EQ, then I played around with the cross-feed, cut out some of the high-end, etc. The only thing that even began to compete with the Vision's sound was enabling cross-feed, and after a while that starts to sound like someone smeared vaseline over your headphones. It was simply weaker across the board to my ears; an inferior sound.

All this isn't to say that the X5 is a bad player, it's not. But for my uses (that is, unamped and fully portable) there are better players out there. One more time, I urge everyone to listen for themselves.

 

[immtbiker]

mucklechumps and altoids (say that 10X fast

)...


When quoting anything on this forum and (others with the same scripts) simply end with [/quote] and start with

and it will blue box whatever you write in it.

I wrote the directions backwards on purpose otherwise it would have blue boxed it like this

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomever ...

 

[JES]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altoids /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... All this isn't to say that the X5 is a bad player, it's not. But for my uses (that is, unamped and fully portable) there are better players out there. One more time, I urge everyone to listen for themselves.

Good advice ... I'll listen to an X5 later in the week and I'll hear for myself.