I2S out? What buss or cable.
Apr 19, 2005 at 7:39 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 10

mbratrud

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I read some of the postings about i2S buss but am still looking for a brief explanation about its advantages over S/PDIF. I have located a good DAC that accepts i2S input but what is the output from the computer? Do you need some type of converter (I guess you must)?

Thanks
 
Apr 19, 2005 at 8:44 PM Post #2 of 10
I2S has three separate signals. Bit clock, LR-clock, and the actual payload.

The potential benefit is that these signal are indeed separate and your DAC (which model are you looking at?) will likely not try to extract the clock from the incoming signal but will route these signals directly to the converter.

Because there is likely no further jitter attentuation circuitry between the input and the converter you want to make sure you feed it a very high quality signal.

Cheers

Thomas
 
Apr 19, 2005 at 10:48 PM Post #3 of 10
Every stand-alone DAC I'm aware of has some type of I2S interface. I can't think of any that have straight S/PIDF because there is a fair amount of work involved in recovering the data from the stream. The device that does that job is called a Digital Receiver. A good example is the CS8416. This is the device you're missing from your computer->DAC chain. I assume you're refering to a DAC IC and not a piece of stereo equipment? At any rate, your computer does not normally output I2S to my knowledge.

The long answer:

S/PIDF is a 1 wire method of digital transmission of audio data. The clock is embedded into the data and is known as a bi-phase code. The data's Ones and Zeros are represented by the spacing of level (0->1->0) transitions in the signal. Packing and unpacking data into s/pidf (also sometimes called EIAJ) is a jittery process. I have the exact numbers for the specification somwhere but can't find them. The specification does mandate that a receiver chip have a certain jitter-rejection capability to account for the added jitter. The spec is, in theory, such that the recovered clock's jitter is below the smallest representable digital value being transmitted, ie not perceptible. We all know this isn't quite true though. S/PIDF is usually implemented over the longer connections from transport mechanism to DAC board. It is not commonly used elsewhere in a CD player, etc for moving data around locally.

I2S (the 2 is actually for "squared": sometimes it's written IIS) is a three wire serial interface. I've never been exactly sure on this part myself, but I believe I2S has additional requirements over just the standard 3 wire interface. But they can be compatable as far as I know. When I mention I2S from here on I'm refering to the concept, not the exact spec.

It is used exactly where S/PIDF isn't: local area transmission. That's not to say it can't be used over distances too, it's just not as common. I believe that the I2S signal is more prone to transmission jitter than s/pidf is, but s/pidf's reclocking jitter kind of offsets it I suppose. Not sure which one would win.

So, as mentioned in an above post, you have Data, Bit Clock, and Word Clock. The wclk runs at some multiple of the sampling rate. A stereo-pair of samples are transmitted on the data line in every wclk period. When wclk is high, you're getting one channel's samples, when it's low your'e getting the other channel. The bclk runs at a multiple of the wclk. The difference is at least 32x which is equivalent to 2 16-bit samples per wclk period. The data signal is simply high on a bit clock transition for a One and low on a transition for Zero. The wclk is there to mark where the samples begin and end in the serial stream. The details of this can change quite a bit, and that is where I'm not sure what is truely considered I2S.
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 1:03 AM Post #5 of 10
I've got a couple of Audio Alchemy DACs (one is on eBay right now) that use I2S...their implementation of it used a mini-din cable, I'm not sure of the pin configuration, although someone (Kal Rubinson I think) posted it over at the Asylum a while back.

I don't know any way to get I2S directly out of a computer. AA made a product, the Enhanced Digital Interface (EDI) that converts s/pdif to I2S (has a BNC input, tho). Its a fussy, temperamental device in my experience. A better bet, if you don't mind spending a little money, is pick up a used DTI Pro32 (like this one): it'll convert a toslink input to I2S, reduce your jitter, and upsample to 24 bits. I've never heard one, mostly because they're (rather stubbornly) holding on to their value on the used market.
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 2:18 AM Post #6 of 10
I used to have a DTI Pro..I now use an Apogee Big Ben and it is a vastly superior product. The Genesis is OK and it is much better as well.

I guess I misunderstood the advantages (and functionality) of i2s.

The North Star unit has an i2s input and sounds really good if you like a very clean, detailed sort of sound. I think it upsamples to 192khz.
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 5:20 AM Post #7 of 10
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbratrud
I used to have a DTI Pro..I now use an Apogee Big Ben and it is a vastly superior product. The Genesis is OK and it is much better as well.


Oh geez dude...you're way out of my league! [inserts tail between legs] [shrinks back to his budget system]
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 5:34 AM Post #8 of 10
converting from spdif to i2s is nonsense, 'upsample to 24bit' is also nonsense.. it's like having integer numbers and claiming that you can increase their accuracy by converting to real numbers.. running I2S out of a computer soundcard would be fairly easy and by all means should better spdif because the clock and data lines are independent.. one would likely have to buffer the signals using some logic gates and thats it.. I would probably use some RGB video cable where you have three supposedly 75R coax type cables for each color - here carrying LRCK, BCK and DATA..
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 9:46 AM Post #9 of 10
@glassman:

look at diyaudio forums, some guy´s have discussed the issue a time ago.. Low Voltage Differential is the way to go (like USB,SATA,i-Link)
it´s like comparing RCA connection to XLR connections (single ended vs. differential)

You´ll need 3 diff. pairs and some LVDS converters -> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folder...75lvdt390.html
 
Apr 21, 2005 at 9:48 AM Post #10 of 10
maybe some RS-485 transmitters, those are for differential busses.. one could carry everything one need over Cat5 TP - MCLK, BCK, LRCK and DATA, sweet..
 

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