[Zenvota]

Of course adding an EQ comes with large risk of adding noise, but maybe there is one that won't? I will likely end up spending more than $30 though and get a new one. I have experience with used EQs, all of it bad

I have the monoprice unit and didn't notice it to be detrimental to sound quality when using a jds labs odac and o2.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...MIkLj3xZju3QIVBkOGCh2ijwLPEAQYASABEgJZr_D_BwE

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, I’m not an audiophile, I’m a music lover. Audiophiles actually do not generally listen to music at all, they listen to gear.

That's if you take the derisive definition based on some audiophiles actually being dumb enough.

Otherwise, you actually cross the line from "music lover" to "audiophile" the minute you're not satisfied with listening to just a boombox in the kitchen or living room. For one, you cared enough about your gear to buy another headphone. It's kind of like how some guys are fine with any guitar but others would invest on a Gibson Les Paul or an ESP paired with Marshall or Mesa Boogie amplifiers. You don't regard the latter as playing instruments without actually playing music unlike the random dude with a random dreadnought in a rail station.

I listen to almost everything, classical (lots lately), prog rock, classic rock, folk, jazz, you name it, except rap, hip-hop and today’s pop and what they call country, which sounds like pop to me.

That's because too many country singers broke into the mainstream recently: Carrie Underwood, Keith Urban, that guy on the swinging arm chair version of American Idol, the Dixie Chicks breaking out of the traditional spectrum section of their fan base when they rejected them (and garnered fans on the other side of the political spectrum) after they said they were ashamed of President GW Bush...

Yes, I would boost only below 50hz and only in the amount needed. EQs need to be used with care and a delicate touch in my opinion. The slightest trim or boost in the wrong spot will introduce other anomalies and issues and end up stuck in a loop.
Software is not an answer for me because I do not listen to my computer or tablet and I do not have a phone or other portable device. I strictly use a full scale HiFi system.
I can’t stand using my computer for playing music and I absolutely hate smartphones and won’t own one even if my life depended on it.
Purchasing yet another set of cans is not the answer either, it is just more overhype-promise and under delivery.

Then EQ really isn't the way to go for you since the closest to a hardware DSP that will have a lot of options for settings so as not to make it worse is to use a car audio processor, which still processes digitally since it has a DSP chip. It might be the same kind of chip in HT receivers, but those aren't programmed with the same features so you can't just get an HT receiver.

I think the answer is one of two:
1) Give the HD650 a bit more time

You can simulate that now. Wear them and press them against your head. Do you like the sound? If not, you're not going to like it when you wear down the earpads either.

2) Failing that, throw them out and stick with my CB1s.

I've been using my HD600 since 2010 and haven't felt the need to get any other headphone. If I want to change it, it's only for going back to speakers.

What it funny is that it seems the higher the price of headphones, the worse the performance.
I wish my HD518s did not have so much bass response (it is way too much). Too bad they could not take a little of the bass from those and put it in the 650s, that would make a fantastic headphone. Yes, designing just such a thing may be a challenge, but Status Audio seem to have hit that sweet spot and for much less. Combine the masteries of Sennheiser and Status Audio and you would have one killer headphone! Likely easier said than done.

Objective performance is better since the response curve is smoother. However there are still compromises that subjectively not everyone will agree on which is a better compromise, and in your case, you just prefer an overboosted low end even if it also means more jagged response curve (look at the graphs posted by Zenvota). Other people like a smoother midrange and treble because that's where the vocals are and where cymbals and vocals can scratch their eardrums; you happen to prefer bass because...well...BASS.

If you're going to try another headphone, chances are the best one for you is the Beats Studio. Might be easier for you to demo them in store though as Best Buy might have them on display so you don't have to buy them to try them out.

 

[414353]

I have the monoprice unit and didn't notice it to be detrimental to sound quality when using a jds labs odac and o2.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...MIkLj3xZju3QIVBkOGCh2ijwLPEAQYASABEgJZr_D_BwE

Thanks for the vote on the Monoprice EQ, glad to know.

 

[414353]

That's if you take the derisive definition based on some audiophiles actually being dumb enough.

Otherwise, you actually cross the line from "music lover" to "audiophile" the minute you're not satisfied with listening to just a boombox in the kitchen or living room. For one, you cared enough about your gear to buy another headphone. It's kind of like how some guys are fine with any guitar but others would invest on a Gibson Les Paul or an ESP paired with Marshall or Mesa Boogie amplifiers. You don't regard the latter as playing instruments without actually playing music unlike the random dude with a random dreadnought in a rail station.




That's because too many country singers broke into the mainstream recently: Carrie Underwood, Keith Urban, that guy on the swinging arm chair version of American Idol, the Dixie Chicks breaking out of the traditional spectrum section of their fan base when they rejected them (and garnered fans on the other side of the political spectrum) after they said they were ashamed of President GW Bush...




Then EQ really isn't the way to go for you since the closest to a hardware DSP that will have a lot of options for settings so as not to make it worse is to use a car audio processor, which still processes digitally since it has a DSP chip. It might be the same kind of chip in HT receivers, but those aren't programmed with the same features so you can't just get an HT receiver.




You can simulate that now. Wear them and press them against your head. Do you like the sound? If not, you're not going to like it when you wear down the earpads either.




I've been using my HD600 since 2010 and haven't felt the need to get any other headphone. If I want to change it, it's only for going back to speakers.




Objective performance is better since the response curve is smoother. However there are still compromises that subjectively not everyone will agree on which is a better compromise, and in your case, you just prefer an overboosted low end even if it also means more jagged response curve (look at the graphs posted by Zenvota). Other people like a smoother midrange and treble because that's where the vocals are and where cymbals and vocals can scratch their eardrums; you happen to prefer bass because...well...BASS.

If you're going to try another headphone, chances are the best one for you is the Beats Studio. Might be easier for you to demo them in store though as Best Buy might have them on display so you don't have to buy them to try them out.

To me “audiophile” is a derisive, mean-spirited title akin to name calling. Calling me an audiophile is offensive, same as harassing me for my ethnic background. I’m satisfied with anything that makes my toes tap or provides a direct easy connect to feeling the music even if it be a $50 boombox (had my share of those and liked some of them quite a bit). Just because I like and appreciate detail in music does not make me an audiophile. In fact, it makes me opposite. I am not chasing after perfection, which does not exist in audio especially, or squeezing the last 1% out of something or restricting what I listen to. So, let’s not mis-label me or anyone else. The day I become an audiophile is the day everything I have: gear, records, CDs etc. goes straight to the garbage without a second glance or thought, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
I was into music at a very early age. I instinctively "listened" to music. I also took music appreciation later in college. I choose to listen to music with trained ears, NOT critical ears. I also tend to listen with my whole body and not just my ears even though I do not need to "Feel" the bass. There is a difference between "critcal" and "trained". For example: I appreciate Jethro Tull's Heavy Horses LP even if J Tull is not one of my favorites (I happen to like some if there stuff). There is a reason why they never reissued that LP these days...they don't have to, the original pressing is that good. The recording and mastering engineers can make or break and album or piece, etc.
My album reviews I do are a bit differently approached due to my method of listening I guess. I don't get into much of the technical details that bore people anyway. I approach from a more visceral direction save a few technical details as they relate biographically. I don't rate albums either in my reviews as I feel it adds interfering bias. I would much rather folks take a listen and decided if they like it or not and why).

The ear pads on all my cans are still like new, including my HD518s, which I have had for almost 9 years (which I am fixing to give up soon) believe it or not. I don’t use headphones that often, only as needed. I’m a speakers guy. Headphones to me are a necessary evil and I figure if it has to be, why not get something that sounds half way decent. Kind of like choosing between two terrible events to happen to you or voting where you close your eyes, hold your nose and push a random button or whatever they use. (I’m apolitical).
Like I said, my HD6xx/650 are spanking new. I figure 7 more hours or so may have a story to tell. That said, I think your idea of making the clamping worse for a brief moment by using my hands (effectively making them closed-backs for that time) may prove interesting if noting else, so I will try that, you have me curious now. (I was born curious anyway).
Audio is full of compromises, especially when it comes to speakers of any type. It comes down to the laws of physics (just ask Andrew Jones).

I’m afraid there may be some mis-understanding as to my bass preference. I do not like over-boosted bass at all, that is why I have not listened with my HD 518s that much in the last 9 years and am ready to give them up. They have way too much bass for me. Symphonic or orchestral Classical music through them sounds veiled and lifeless. Jazz sounds like it is white-washed. Prog rock is a frustrating problem through them. Solo piano or some of say Tori Amos’s sparser tracks sound ok. Overall though, I find the HD518s while my most comfy cans, to be muddy and messy with the over-boosted bass they have. I prefer to hear everything in the piece of music in balance and as much detail as possible. My AKG K7xx, Takstar Pro 80s, even my CB-1s and the new HD6xx all outperform the HD518s overall.
If I listened to rap or hip-hop I would go with the Beats (or stick with the HD518s) and be happy because they are voiced strictly for that. However, those genres are so far off my list they can’t be seen.

I like balance. I like bass, mids and treble to be where they should be as much as possible, so I can hear details that draw me in. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a little fun, otherwise I would not like anything and would hate music. All speakers are colored in some way, it is just what flavor do you like. For instance, I can’t stand Majico, but I like certain Paradigms, others can’t stand Paradigm period. I can’t stand horned speakers, others can’t live without them. I prefer towers, others like bookshelf…etc. That said, the HD6xx has a wonder smooth midrange, the vocals are fantastic and scratch my eardrums and I love that! I bet if I put on some 5th Dimension I’d probably wet myself, it would sound so good in that regard. The issue is right now is they sound out of balance with the somewhat below minimum of bass, it makes music sound 2 dimensional.
As I experienced with the AKGK7xx, let’s see if things don’t change after a few more hours of use. (Might take me a good three weeks to get there or so, but ok).

 

[ProtegeManiac]

To me “audiophile” is a derisive, mean-spirited title akin to name calling. Calling me an audiophile is offensive, same as harassing me for my ethnic background.

Well somebody's got some baggage.

I don't automatically see the term as derisive, much less when I used it to include you. Audio means "sound," philos means "love," plain and simple. What you're doing is saying that Thales is the only example of loving knowledge, ie, as a philosopher - ie, lover of knowledge - contemplating the stars while walking and fell into a ditch when there are people like Aristotle who are looking down (or that Galileo looks at the heavens through a telescope instead of while walking).

I’m satisfied with anything that makes my toes tap or provides a direct easy connect to feeling the music even if it be a $50 boombox (had my share of those and liked some of them quite a bit).

Sooooooooo why did you buy a $200 headphone? And all the other stuff you're using with it? Stick with the boombox then.

TJust because I like and appreciate detail in music does not make me an audiophile. In fact, it makes me opposite. I am not chasing after perfection, which does not exist in audio especially, or squeezing the last 1% out of something or restricting what I listen to. So, let’s not mis-label me or anyone else. The day I become an audiophile is the day everything I have: gear, records, CDs etc. goes straight to the garbage without a second glance or thought, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

And just like with the difference between Thales and Aristotle (and Galileo), there are different audiophiles.

There are those who seek to get close to perfection, ie, objectivists who seek the flattest possible response given current tech, or whatever compromise they can live with.

What you speak of derisively are the subjectivists who think that what is pleasing is what counts for perfection, striving for purity in signal handling to eschew EQ while using amplifiers as equalizers.

I separate myself from the latter in terms of not using an amplifier as an equalizer, or how they influence some products to be made, but I can't not be but also an audiophile considering I wouldn't just listen to default car speakers or some random kitchen boombox. Despite those concerns the same economy sustains our needs and there will always be somebody sane enough to not merely cater to their preferences.

I was into music at a very early age. I instinctively "listened" to music. I also took music appreciation later in college. I choose to listen to music with trained ears, NOT critical ears. I also tend to listen with my whole body and not just my ears even though I do not need to "Feel" the bass. There is a difference between "critcal" and "trained". For example: I appreciate Jethro Tull's Heavy Horses LP even if J Tull is not one of my favorites (I happen to like some if there stuff). There is a reason why they never reissued that LP these days...they don't have to, the original pressing is that good. The recording and mastering engineers can make or break and album or piece, etc.
My album reviews I do are a bit differently approached due to my method of listening I guess. I don't get into much of the technical details that bore people anyway. I approach from a more visceral direction save a few technical details as they relate biographically. I don't rate albums either in my reviews as I feel it adds interfering bias. I would much rather folks take a listen and decided if they like it or not and why).

Hence why the term derives from the Greek words for "sound" and "love."

For one, would you rather be blind or deaf? All my former bandmates chose to be deaf, because getting around as a blind guy seemed hard. I chose to be blind, because no matter how hard that is, being able to hear music is something worth living for even if I have to clean my rear feeling for the toilet paper, the bidet, and the soap. Sure I can't cook, but I can eat in a restaurant. Being deaf doesn't make a distinction between playing my own guitar or going to a concert.

The ear pads on all my cans are still like new, including my HD518s, which I have had for almost 9 years (which I am fixing to give up soon) believe it or not. I don’t use headphones that often, only as needed. I’m a speakers guy. Headphones to me are a necessary evil and I figure if it has to be, why not get something that sounds half way decent. Kind of like choosing between two terrible events to happen to you or voting where you close your eyes, hold your nose and push a random button or whatever they use.

Chances are you'd probably choose going blind over going deaf though if you were given that choice.

(I’m apolitical).

This is where it gets weird, because music isn't apolitical: classical composers needed Royal or noble patrons, Wagner was seen as a symbol of Germanic spirit, music has been used as protest long before Rage Against the Machine, Epica had "Cry for the Moon" that never mind I can't mention it or Head-Fi will delete this post because you can't really discuss politics and "Facade of Reality" as a commentary on can't mention it either along with an excerpt of a speech by this level of forum censorship can get really limiting.

I’m afraid there may be some mis-understanding as to my bass preference. I do not like over-boosted bass at all, that is why I have not listened with my HD 518s that much in the last 9 years and am ready to give them up. They have way too much bass for me. Symphonic or orchestral Classical music through them sounds veiled and lifeless. Jazz sounds like it is white-washed. Prog rock is a frustrating problem through them. Solo piano or some of say Tori Amos’s sparser tracks sound ok. Overall though, I find the HD518s while my most comfy cans, to be muddy and messy with the over-boosted bass they have. I prefer to hear everything in the piece of music in balance and as much detail as possible. My AKG K7xx, Takstar Pro 80s, even my CB-1s and the new HD6xx all outperform the HD518s overall.
If I listened to rap or hip-hop I would go with the Beats (or stick with the HD518s) and be happy because they are voiced strictly for that. However, those genres are so far off my list they can’t be seen.

If you actually looked at the graphs that were linked above you'll see the HD650 actually has a lot of bass, just rolls off at 40hz; the CB-1 has even stronger bass at 40hz than at 60hz, where it's also much stronger than the HD650s, that is also boosted to begin with, hence why I said you preferred stronger bass.

Did you even try pushing the HD650 against your head while wearing it tighter to simulate worn out earpads? Because that can boost the low end on the HD6xx series. My HD600 on thinned out earpads sounds like molasses when driven by the Little Dot MkII.

I like balance. I like bass, mids and treble to be where they should be as much as possible, so I can hear details that draw me in. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a little fun, otherwise I would not like anything and would hate music. All speakers are colored in some way, it is just what flavor do you like. For instance, I can’t stand Majico, but I like certain Paradigms, others can’t stand Paradigm period. I can’t stand horned speakers, others can’t live without them. I prefer towers, others like bookshelf…etc. That said, the HD6xx has a wonder smooth midrange, the vocals are fantastic and scratch my eardrums and I love that! I bet if I put on some 5th Dimension I’d probably wet myself, it would sound so good in that regard. The issue is right now is they sound out of balance with the somewhat below minimum of bass, it makes music sound 2 dimensional.
As I experienced with the AKGK7xx, let’s see if things don’t change after a few more hours of use. (Might take me a good three weeks to get there or so, but ok).

They're not good with simulating depth unlike the K701, but that one pushes the bass drum too far to the rear and coupled with its roll off makes it sound like it has zero bass to most people.

If you want bass with more 3D imaging, while retaining the midrange, what you probably need is the LCD-2C.

 

[414353]

Well somebody's got some baggage.

I don't automatically see the term as derisive, much less when I used it to include you. Audio means "sound," philos means "love," plain and simple. What you're doing is saying that Thales is the only example of loving knowledge, ie, as a philosopher - ie, lover of knowledge - contemplating the stars while walking and fell into a ditch when there are people like Aristotle who are looking down (or that Galileo looks at the heavens through a telescope instead of while walking).




Sooooooooo why did you buy a $200 headphone? And all the other stuff you're using with it? Stick with the boombox then.




And just like with the difference between Thales and Aristotle (and Galileo), there are different audiophiles.

There are those who seek to get close to perfection, ie, objectivists who seek the flattest possible response given current tech, or whatever compromise they can live with.

What you speak of derisively are the subjectivists who think that what is pleasing is what counts for perfection, striving for purity in signal handling to eschew EQ while using amplifiers as equalizers.

I separate myself from the latter in terms of not using an amplifier as an equalizer, or how they influence some products to be made, but I can't not be but also an audiophile considering I wouldn't just listen to default car speakers or some random kitchen boombox. Despite those concerns the same economy sustains our needs and there will always be somebody sane enough to not merely cater to their preferences.




Hence why the term derives from the Greek words for "sound" and "love."

For one, would you rather be blind or deaf? All my former bandmates chose to be deaf, because getting around as a blind guy seemed hard. I chose to be blind, because no matter how hard that is, being able to hear music is something worth living for even if I have to clean my rear feeling for the toilet paper, the bidet, and the soap. Sure I can't cook, but I can eat in a restaurant. Being deaf doesn't make a distinction between playing my own guitar or going to a concert.




Chances are you'd probably choose going blind over going deaf though if you were given that choice.




This is where it gets weird, because music isn't apolitical: classical composers needed Royal or noble patrons, Wagner was seen as a symbol of Germanic spirit, music has been used as protest long before Rage Against the Machine, Epica had "Cry for the Moon" that never mind I can't mention it or Head-Fi will delete this post because you can't really discuss politics and "Facade of Reality" as a commentary on can't mention it either along with an excerpt of a speech by this level of forum censorship can get really limiting.






If you actually looked at the graphs that were linked above you'll see the HD650 actually has a lot of bass, just rolls off at 40hz; the CB-1 has even stronger bass at 40hz than at 60hz, where it's also much stronger than the HD650s, that is also boosted to begin with, hence why I said you preferred stronger bass.

Did you even try pushing the HD650 against your head while wearing it tighter to simulate worn out earpads? Because that can boost the low end on the HD6xx series. My HD600 on thinned out earpads sounds like molasses when driven by the Little Dot MkII.




They're not good with simulating depth unlike the K701, but that one pushes the bass drum too far to the rear and coupled with its roll off makes it sound like it has zero bass to most people.

If you want bass with more 3D imaging, while retaining the midrange, what you probably need is the LCD-2C.

Nice try, but I won't be swallowing any hooks now or in future. Baggage? I think not, at least not in the sense you refer. What you wrote here is an example of the very thing I am talking about, forcing one's beliefs and definments onto another. (I was not raised in such a culture). FYI: No, I am not telling what my ethnic background is.
This permeates the audio community and is part and parcel to the reason why folks are turned off and have stopped listening to music. They would like better sound quality, but are obstructed from it not by price as much as by attitude of others, "audiophiles" as they are called. It used to be a honorable title to be someone into exploring the audio world trying for the betterment of it and helping others to it back a few decades ago. Now days it is elitist, almost a cult like religion and any deviation from the latest preaching is considered heretical to be punished by tongue lashing, defamation and ex-communication. It is ludacris, but there we have it. There are those who have tried to bring back the original definition and restore honor, but the numbers against such a thing are legion. I was one of those trying to restore honor, but was severely out-numbered. It is like fighting the laws of physics, you will not win.
You may not see the term "audiophile" as derisive and according to original definition you would be correct. That said though, this is a different culture here in US (at least to me as I struggle with it) and fairness and equality are unheard of. Sadly, definitions change in the English language, even for the worse. No, it should not be that way, but it is.

Fortunately or not, I do not have a choice of being either blind or deaf. My ears over-compensate for my eyes as I do have rather poor vision getting worse and there is nothing I can do about it. I will be blind in time.
That said, if I had such a choice, I might likely actually choose going deaf. Why? One can do more about being deaf than about being blind. One can read lips, read sign language and believe it or not, still listen to music and even be a successful musician! Of course one can still listen to music and be a musician if blind, we have many examples. However, for me I would rather see what is coming at me than rely solely on a stick or what someone tells me, etc. Of course, I also choose not to go deaf on purpose like many others seem to do. I don't play music loud in any given way when I listen. I know many who play headphones as loud as Who concerts! They also complain a lot about sound and hearing not realizing it is their own damn fault. If you sat next to me as I listened with open back cans you would either not be able to hear what I was listening to or be unable to decipher any of it. That is the volume I listen at with headphones. Some people say that is stupid and no wonder you don't get good performance, etc. To that I say, who is the more foolish? The fool or the one who follows him?

If the bass rolls off at 40hz on the HD650 then after some time of use it should make itself known and even be to my satisfaction. I say that because most full range tower speakers roll off at 35hz to 44hz. For example: My speakers in my system presently in use roll off at 40hz and will renovate the room if not careful. In other words, they go plenty low for music and have the impact of a jack hammer. I don't let them get out of control as I hate boomy bass.
That is why I am waiting to see if the HD650/6xx will open up over a time first before doing anything.

I'm not a fan of Audeze having heard many of their cans. They are not bad in sound at all, but very over-priced and far too big for my head. They are $1000 which is more than double what my system presently used cost.

By the way, if boomboxes still existed, I would likely have one and be happy if I did not play vinyl. That said though they don't make them anymore, not like they used to.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Nice try, but I won't be swallowing any hooks now or in future. Baggage? I think not, at least not in the sense you refer. What you wrote here is an example of the very thing I am talking about, forcing one's beliefs and definments onto another. (I was not raised in such a culture). FYI: No, I am not telling what my ethnic background is.

The thing is, you brought that up. And if it wasn't clear before, I'm just telling you to loosen up.

This permeates the audio community and is part and parcel to the reason why folks are turned off and have stopped listening to music. They would like better sound quality, but are obstructed from it not by price as much as by attitude of others, "audiophiles" as they are called. It used to be a honorable title to be someone into exploring the audio world trying for the betterment of it and helping others to it back a few decades ago. Now days it is elitist, almost a cult like religion and any deviation from the latest preaching is considered heretical to be punished by tongue lashing, defamation and ex-communication. It is ludacris, but there we have it. There are those who have tried to bring back the original definition and restore honor, but the numbers against such a thing are legion. I was one of those trying to restore honor, but was severely out-numbered. It is like fighting the laws of physics, you will not win.

Last I looked people are still listening to whatever earphones they have on the train, not getting ashamed to roll up their iPhone earbuds in the presence of my Aurisonics ASG-1. Everyone's still listening to music.

Again...loosen up. Let that stick in the bum fall out on its own.

You may not see the term "audiophile" as derisive and according to original definition you would be correct. That said though, this is a different culture here in US (at least to me as I struggle with it) and fairness and equality are unheard of. Sadly, definitions change in the English language, even for the worse. No, it should not be that way, but it is.

Again. Baggage. And again. Lighten up.

The way you talk about ethnicity and the animosity by audiophiles it sounds like somebody stole your iPod and you found it hanging by its earbuds on a tree used for batting practice, then the next morning somebody burned an iPhone on your lawn telling you to git out, i-Worder! They don' like yer kind 'round these parts, because iPhone users are all drug dealers or hiding bricks of C4 or something.

Fortunately or not, I do not have a choice of being either blind or deaf. My ears over-compensate for my eyes as I do have rather poor vision getting worse and there is nothing I can do about it. I will be blind in time.
That said, if I had such a choice, I might likely actually choose going deaf. Why? One can do more about being deaf than about being blind. One can read lips, read sign language and believe it or not, still listen to music and even be a successful musician! Of course one can still listen to music and be a musician if blind, we have many examples. However, for me I would rather see what is coming at me than rely solely on a stick or what someone tells me, etc. Of course, I also choose not to go deaf on purpose like many others seem to do. I don't play music loud in any given way when I listen. I know many who play headphones as loud as Who concerts! They also complain a lot about sound and hearing not realizing it is their own damn fault. If you sat next to me as I listened with open back cans you would either not be able to hear what I was listening to or be unable to decipher any of it. That is the volume I listen at with headphones. Some people say that is stupid and no wonder you don't get good performance, etc. To that I say, who is the more foolish? The fool or the one who follows him?

Your claim for loving music is highly suspect at this point. Sure, Beethoven can conduct, but he can't hear it. You can't enjoy music itself that way.

If the bass rolls off at 40hz on the HD650 then after some time of use it should make itself known and even be to my satisfaction. I say that because most full range tower speakers roll off at 35hz to 44hz. For example: My speakers in my system presently in use roll off at 40hz and will renovate the room if not careful. In other words, they go plenty low for music and have the impact of a jack hammer. I don't let them get out of control as I hate boomy bass.

Do I have to repeat this. Apparently.

Speakers moving air all over a room affects perception and noise floor override waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy differnetly than a headphone can make itself known it has response down to 45hz.

You could just clink the posted links to see what I'm talking about. Look at the graph. That's more accurate than your own ears. If you think your own ears are better than actual objective equipment, you're...gasp!...a subjective audiophile.

Shocking, I know.

That is why I am waiting to see if the HD650/6xx will open up over a time first before doing anything.

Did. You. Press. Them. Against. Your. Ears. Like. I. Am. Now. Saying. For. At. Least. The. Third. Time.

The only thing that really breaks in is the earpads. Pressing them against your head simulates worn down earpads. That's how you can tell ahead of time if "break in" will get you what you want, rather than everything else you've been doing up to this point.

I'm not a fan of Audeze having heard many of their cans. They are not bad in sound at all, but very over-priced and far too big for my head. They are $1000 which is more than double what my system presently used cost.

That's why I said LCD-2C. It's $800. Which according to mathematics is lower than $1000.

And even if that's too much, well, if you want the HD650's midrange without the low bass roll off, there's nowhere else to go really.

Or well, there is. Your CB-1 and your speakers.

By the way, if boomboxes still existed, I would likely have one and be happy if I did not play vinyl. That said though they don't make them anymore, not like they used to.

Not an audiophile, hates audiophiles....but plays an esoteric and inconvenient to use, bulky to store format.