[beetledude]

Hi Guys.

I'm hoping you can help me out. I'm fairly new to both headphones and building out a high quality PC based audio system. My first try was with the M-Audio Firewire 2496. While I got ASIO for foobar and winamp working, the problem is that there are clicks and pops when the system is busy. I already checked and there are no driver or IRQ conflicts with the M-Audio. My suspicion is that the extra firewire interface is adding enough of a delay to cause the clicks when the system gets busy. When the system is not that busy, it works fine and the sound is good enough (not to mention the convenience) is good enough for me to want to explore the PC as a source even more.

So today I bought a Benchmark DAC-1. While I"m not sure I believe it's claims of "completely eliminating jitter problems", most reports say that it does is highly jitter immune.

Now all I need is to get digital out to the DAC-1. sigh. I'm learning that's harder than it sounds. Sheesh, all I want is unmolested spdif or toslink digital out. And then I learn about this kmixer garbage. sigh...

Can somebody point me at a soundcard that will output clean digital data without resampling cd-audio to 48K? Ideally it should work for all players including Windows Media Player, but I can live with a forced winamp or foobar using ASIO if needed. A friend is going to let me try the M-Audio Delta Dio 2496, but I read elsewhere that the current drivers don't work with ASIO and SPDIF?

Is there any other solution besides the RME Pad? From the sounds of it only the RME can get around the kmixer problem. Will the chaintech work?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
-bailey

 

[Glassman]

if you need just digital out, Chaintech should do well.. in theory you can flash new firmware into it and make it Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 for example.. analog outs won't work but you'll get perfect drivers with ASIO for digital out..

someone should try flashing his Chaintech to see if it works with Envy24HT-S not just Envy24HT.. I'm sure those chips are pretty simillar and their digital transmitter is identical, so any drivers will work with either chip.. you can use whatever drivers you like, M-Audio, Terratec, Audiotrak, ESI.. whatever..

check this out: http://www.forgotten-realms.cfl.pl/o...pageid=aurprod

 

[Edwood]

RME's drivers are very easy to install and the card works in no time flat.

Of course with patience and work, you can probably get cheaper cards to work as well.

-Ed

 

[lan]

If you want to work unresampled in any Directsound or WaveOut apps, I'd get one of the RME cards.

I would rather get an emu 1212M. Even though it may resample, the output quality is still better than the RME PAD.

 

[beetledude]

Thanks for the help guys. I may try the Chaintech just becuase it's so cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan If you want to work unresampled in any Directsound or WaveOut apps, I'd get one of the RME cards. I would rather get an emu 1212M. Even though it may resample, the output quality is still better than the RME PAD.

Hmm, are you saying the digital output is better than the RME PAD? Or are you talking about it's analog capabilties? Since I will be using an external DAC shouldn't all cards be about the same (as long as it has good digital out)? I'm hoping Benchmark's claimed "immunity from jitter" will be the differences in sound cards irrelevant.

-bailey

 

[lan]

The digital AND analog output are better than the RME PAD.

I don't believe in total immunity to jitter. So a good source and digital cable are still important.

I recommend using a glass toslink cable + Emu 1212m

 

[beetledude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan The digital AND analog output are better than the RME PAD. I don't believe in total immunity to jitter. So a good source and digital cable are still important. I recommend using a glass toslink cable + Emu 1212m

Thanks for the response lan, I really appreciate it.

Just one more question if you don't mind. Please bear with me, as I'm new to PC audio in general. I'm trying to understand how the digital output of the Emu can be "better" than the RME PAD?

Is there less latency, or jitter? The goal I'm striving for is bit perfect digital output. Are you saying that no card can output clean digital output and that the Emu digital out is closer but still not perfect?

And since the Emu has to use windows kmixer, doesn't that degrade the digital output more than RME's kmixer-bypassing drivers?

Thanks,
-bailey

 

[lan]

Hey beetledude.

Bit perfect is one thing but jitter is another. Being bit perfect is more software of a software issue (and a sometimes hardware). Jitter is a purely a hardware thing. The better soundcard will have less jitter if they are designed well. This can be evident from the clarity of it's digital and analog outputs. There's no such thing as no jitter just less.

>>>>And since the Emu has to use windows kmixer, doesn't that degrade the digital output more than RME's kmixer-bypassing drivers?

If you use kernel streaming or ASIO, you bypass kmixer which only exists in Win2K and WinXP (I forget about WinME). Of course if there are some programs that don't support those output methods, then you'll run into kmixer. The 2 other output methods are WaveOut/MME and DirectSound. Those are usually used for games and movies. Is that a problem? Maybe not because I figure I rather have resampling and better hardware and less jitter than no resampling and worst hardware and more jitter.

 

[dknightd]

beetledude,
My understanding is that the Benchmark DAC-1 reclocks the signal so
jitter from the source should not be a concern. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Dane]

If you get pops and noises only when the system is busy it's bacause CPU resources are removed from your audio application. A soundcard which handles more of the work directly in hardware or has better drivers might help. In the meantime I would try this (WinXP):

1. Pres Ctrl+Alt+Del
2. Click on the "Processes" sheet
3. Locate the applications associated with your audio playback (foobar + winamp + whatever).
4. Right click on application, you should get a small menu.
5. Select "Set Priority"
6. Select "Realtime"

This gives your audio stuff super high priority and wont let other applications steal CPU power from them. This solved the problem for my brother.

 

[adhoc]

Hello lan,

I'm thinking of going the external DAC + 1212m route too - mind just confirming this with me?

1212m using ASIO, not performing resampling and using a glass toslink = perfect digital out?

 

[lan]

That is correct.

I rather get 0404 and some power conditioning than 1212m if you're going to go external DAC route.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beetledude My first try was with the M-Audio Firewire 2496. While I got ASIO for foobar and winamp working, the problem is that there are clicks and pops when the system is busy.

I had the same problems with the Transit. However I found that it is bit-perfect with wave-out, so ASIO is unnecessary, and I suspect your card is too, since it is higher up in the M-Audio line.

 

[merlock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSMR I had the same problems with the Transit. However I found that it is bit-perfect with wave-out, so ASIO is unnecessary, and I suspect your card is too, since it is higher up in the M-Audio line.

By wave out, do you mean analogue out? I'm thinking about getting the transit for bit perfect spdif out to my receiver using WMP. So are you having problems with clicks using the spdif out?

merlock