[shingo43]

Hi all
I am computer engineering and I sit in front of a computer 8+ hours a day, my current set up is asus sonar STX with a Bose on ear, but that cannot satisfy me any more. I am using foobar and all music are flac or alac. I listen to pop and jazz
Now I want to upgrade the headphones and possibly the amp/dac if necessary
I have theses requirements
1 must be comfortable because I am gonna wear them about 4-6 hours a day continously
2 must be closed
3 must be good for jazz and most pops, I like good middle and high

I am seeking for a used denon d2000, any other recommendations?
Do I need a better amp? If yes any recommendations for my music type?
Thanks

 

[shingo43]

I just bought a used Denon d2000 from a forum member, cannot wait to get it.
 
is the phone gonna be paired up with the asus card okay?

 

[DarkSaiyan]

This might be overkill, but I use a Grace m903 for my desk now.  The USB input is great for PC playback.

 

[shingo43]

thanks, based on my understanding, the asus stx has a digital S/PDIF jack, so for me setup should I look for an amp with digital in?
so that will be flac->soundcard->amp->headphone ?
 
another thing confused me is that if all digital inputs/outputs are the same(i.e 0&1 in and 0&1 out), does it a good sound card or a good digital cable even matter,because the in and out should be exactly lossless and the same?

 

[shingo43]

why I don't get many responses? is it because my questions too silly or they have been answered thousands of times?

 

[driftingbunnies]

How much money are you willing to spend? Are you afraid of someone taking it? Do you have anything that you don't like about the sound card?
 
The D2000 isn't really that power hungry so a portable should be enough. Maybe something in the ibasso family. It really depends on what you want to do. You can go either amp or DAC/amp. If you're going for a DAC/amp you can get a D4 or whichever D you're willing to spend. If you want to just get an amp, I'm sure a used gilmore lite would go well with the D2000.

 

[Yoga Flame]

Quote:

I just bought a used Denon d2000 from a forum member, cannot wait to get it.
 
is the phone gonna be paired up with the asus card okay?

From what I've read, Denons are not hard headphones to drive. The STX's built in amp should probably be powerful enough. Never tried it myself though.
 
One benefit from having an external amp is you get an analog volume knob. This will allow you to max out the digital volume on your soundcard + media player and use the knob to bring it back down to a listenable level. This increases the signal-to-noise ratio, and may give you better fine control to get the exact level you like.
 
Quote:

thanks, based on my understanding, the asus stx has a digital S/PDIF jack, so for me setup should I look for an amp with digital in?
so that will be flac->soundcard->amp->headphone ?
 
another thing confused me is that if all digital inputs/outputs are the same(i.e 0&1 in and 0&1 out), does it a good sound card or a good digital cable even matter,because the in and out should be exactly lossless and the same?

What you are thinking of is a DAC/amp combo. This is an amp with a DAC built in, and it will replace the main functions of your soundcard. It is also possible to get the DAC and amp as separate devices. Or even just get an amp with no DAC. These are all options:
 
1. PC -> soundcard -> headphones
2. PC -> soundcard -> line-out -> amp -> headphones
3. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC/amp -> headphones
4. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
5. PC -> USB -> DAC/amp -> headphones
6. PC -> USB -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
 
I've probably still left something out.
 
Prolonged discussion on digital cables always ends in a heated debate. But I think both sides will agree that you shouldn't invest in expensive cables at the entry level.
 
 
Quote:

why I don't get many responses? is it because my questions too silly or they have been answered thousands of times?

Maybe the latter. You can try using the search function to see if anyone has already asked what you need to know. Search for something like "d5000 amp" or something like that. If you find the answer, do post an update here so that future readers who read this will benefit.
 
I myself came across your thread a couple time but never replied before this because I have not tried either the D5000 or the STX.
 

 

[shingo43]

Quote:

How much money are you willing to spend? Are you afraid of someone taking it? Do you have anything that you don't like about the sound card?
 
The D2000 isn't really that power hungry so a portable should be enough. Maybe something in the ibasso family. It really depends on what you want to do. You can go either amp or DAC/amp. If you're going for a DAC/amp you can get a D4 or whichever D you're willing to spend. If you want to just get an amp, I'm sure a used gilmore lite would go well with the D2000.

money is not my biggest concern here, I just want to find the right amp for the d2000(and the hd650 in the near future) to suit my music style, because I know an amp can last for a while, so it sounds like it's better to spend a little more in the first place but of course I don't want to overkill the phones.
 
I do like the sound card, but I just wonder if I can spend a little more to make it sound even better.
 
thanks for your suggestion, I'll definitely do more research on gilmore lite and the Ibasso family.
 
 

 

[shingo43]

Quote:

From what I've read, Denons are not hard headphones to drive. The STX's built in amp should probably be powerful enough. Never tried it myself though.
 
One benefit from having an external amp is you get an analog volume knob. This will allow you to max out the digital volume on your soundcard + media player and use the knob to bring it back down to a listenable level. This increases the signal-to-noise ratio, and may give you better fine control to get the exact level you like.
 

What you are thinking of is a DAC/amp combo. This is an amp with a DAC built in, and it will replace the main functions of your soundcard. It is also possible to get the DAC and amp as separate devices. Or even just get an amp with no DAC. These are all options:
 
1. PC -> soundcard -> headphones
2. PC -> soundcard -> line-out -> amp -> headphones
3. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC/amp -> headphones
4. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
5. PC -> USB -> DAC/amp -> headphones
6. PC -> USB -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
 
I've probably still left something out.
 
Prolonged discussion on digital cables always ends in a heated debate. But I think both sides will agree that you shouldn't invest in expensive cables at the entry level.

Maybe the latter. You can try using the search function to see if anyone has already asked what you need to know. Search for something like "d5000 amp" or something like that. If you find the answer, do post an update here so that future readers who read this will benefit.
 
I myself came across your thread a couple time but never replied before this because I have not tried either the D5000 or the STX.
 

 
Thank you
I think the asus essence stx is a good sound card, so I don't want to use a usb dac/amp to replace it. so that I have 4 options left
 
1. PC -> soundcard -> headphones
2. PC -> soundcard -> line-out -> amp -> headphones
3. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC/amp -> headphones
4. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
 
do you think option 2 will be better than 1? but the soundcard has a builtin amp, will it be duplicate to use 2 amps together?
for option 3 and 4, my concern is that will all digital signal be lossless? What I mean is computers are all about 0 and 1, so that no matter how expensive your sound card is, if it has a digital out, the In and Out will be the same? For example, my onboard soundcard has a digital out, so will the Out be the same if I play the same music on the on board card VS the more expensive Asus essense stx? and all the digital cables(no matter the price) will be lossless too? Am I correct?
 
If I was correct that only leave me option2?
 

 

[Yoga Flame]

 
Quote:

 
Thank you
I think the asus essence stx is a good sound card, so I don't want to use a usb dac/amp to replace it. so that I have 4 options left
 
1. PC -> soundcard -> headphones
2. PC -> soundcard -> line-out -> amp -> headphones
3. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC/amp -> headphones
4. PC -> soundcard -> SPDIF -> DAC -> amp -> headphones
 
do you think option 2 will be better than 1? but the soundcard has a builtin amp, will it be duplicate to use 2 amps together?
for option 3 and 4, my concern is that will all digital signal be lossless? What I mean is computers are all about 0 and 1, so that no matter how expensive your sound card is, if it has a digital out, the In and Out will be the same? For example, my onboard soundcard has a digital out, so will the Out be the same if I play the same music on the on board card VS the more expensive Asus essense stx? and all the digital cables(no matter the price) will be lossless too? Am I correct?
 
If I was correct that only leave me option2?
 

Re: #1 vs #2
 
There are a couple factors to consider. First is whether the soundcard has enough power for the headphones. In your case it does. Next, is the output impedance. It should be lower than the impedance rating of your headphones. This is also true in your case. If either condition was not met, then an external amp would be a vast improvement.
 
Then there is the matter of background noise. Some soundcards are inherently noisy due to bad design, or can easily pick up noise from other parts of the computer like the video card, wifi, or power supply. I have read that the STX is well shielded and so on, so you may be good here too. Try it and see. But if not, then an external amp will also help. Like I posted earlier, you can max out the digital volume on the soundcard, and use the analog volume knob. The background noise is at a constant level, so when the music is made much louder, the noise becomes a much smaller percentage of the total signal. The amp's analog volume control will attenuate both the music and the noise equally. Personally I also like having an easily accessible device on my desk with a physical volume knob.
 
 
Re: Double amping
 
Many soundcards have a separate audio jack for headphones and for line out. The signals are amped differently for each one. Line out is good for linking to an external amp. Headohone out is the one with more power (but might lead to distortion if you amp it again).
 
 
Re: Digital 1s and 0s
 
Yes, one of the benefits of digital is that it can be transmitted and retransmitted countless times with no loss or degradation. However, that usually requires good transmission protocols, such as the TCP/IP that we use for internet. In audio, the standard is S/PDIF. This is a one way protocol with no error correction. If the sender screws something up, the receiver can't request for it to be sent again. Why this is still being used is beyond me.
 
You'll probably see "jitter" being discussed on Head-Fi. This happens when the sender and receiver are not totally in sync. It's the most commonly cited cause for differences in digital transmission. However to put things in perspective, studies have shown that distortion from common jitter is almost inaudible. Your mileage may vary. This is another hot topic in the audio holy wars.
 
So is the onboard digital out the same as the STX digital out? In theory yes. But maybe the STX has more stable drivers and uses less CPU. Maybe the onboard SPDIF output carries analog noise along with the digital signal. This noise may affect the performance of the external DAC. With the STX I believe you can also apply effects to the audio sent out over SPDIF, like virtual surround sound. Should be useful for gaming or movies.
 
 

 

[debitsohn]

how about optical > iBasso Boomslang (or the new one coming out next month) > ibasso pelican (or RSA SR71b) > denon d7000?
 
then you get a small footprint, portable, etc.

 

[shingo43]

Thanks so much Yoga Flame, that definitely makes my way more clear.
Quote:

 

Re: #1 vs #2
 
There are a couple factors to consider. First is whether the soundcard has enough power for the headphones. In your case it does. Next, is the output impedance. It should be lower than the impedance rating of your headphones. This is also true in your case. If either condition was not met, then an external amp would be a vast improvement.
 
Then there is the matter of background noise. Some soundcards are inherently noisy due to bad design, or can easily pick up noise from other parts of the computer like the video card, wifi, or power supply. I have read that the STX is well shielded and so on, so you may be good here too. Try it and see. But if not, then an external amp will also help. Like I posted earlier, you can max out the digital volume on the soundcard, and use the analog volume knob. The background noise is at a constant level, so when the music is made much louder, the noise becomes a much smaller percentage of the total signal. The amp's analog volume control will attenuate both the music and the noise equally. Personally I also like having an easily accessible device on my desk with a physical volume knob.
 
 
Re: Double amping
 
Many soundcards have a separate audio jack for headphones and for line out. The signals are amped differently for each one. Line out is good for linking to an external amp. Headohone out is the one with more power (but might lead to distortion if you amp it again).
 
 
Re: Digital 1s and 0s
 
Yes, one of the benefits of digital is that it can be transmitted and retransmitted countless times with no loss or degradation. However, that usually requires good transmission protocols, such as the TCP/IP that we use for internet. In audio, the standard is S/PDIF. This is a one way protocol with no error correction. If the sender screws something up, the receiver can't request for it to be sent again. Why this is still being used is beyond me.
 
You'll probably see "jitter" being discussed on Head-Fi. This happens when the sender and receiver are not totally in sync. It's the most commonly cited cause for differences in digital transmission. However to put things in perspective, studies have shown that distortion from common jitter is almost inaudible. Your mileage may vary. This is another hot topic in the audio holy wars.
 
So is the onboard digital out the same as the STX digital out? In theory yes. But maybe the STX has more stable drivers and uses less CPU. Maybe the onboard SPDIF output carries analog noise along with the digital signal. This noise may affect the performance of the external DAC. With the STX I believe you can also apply effects to the audio sent out over SPDIF, like virtual surround sound. Should be useful for gaming or movies.