[mitchflorida]

I have been listening to headphones almost exclusively for about 5 months, mainly because I didn't realize how bad my old stereo system was.  The HD598 was much clearer in the upper range and middle, and was okay for the lows.   Then I bought a brand new system  (everything on sale) and it blew those headphones out of the water.  
 
And yes, I do want to feel the Double bass, cello, and kettle drums, not just hear them.   If you go to a small concert hall you can hear the same effect.

 

[freeeekyyy]

There are plenty of instruments besides just organs that go below 60hz. You're thinking about 40hz lower than that. Bass guitar, which doesn't even go as low as a lot of other stringed instruments, goes down to about 40hz, which is still considerably higher than the lower limits of the audible range. A normal human ear can hear down to about 20hz; that's considerably lower than 60hz. Are you suggesting if a person is listenting to music with a lot of bass guitar, for example, that it makes more sense to leave off a good chunk of the music from being reproduced, or that it's not necessary? Can't agree with that. If we were talking below 30hz, I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with you, though I think it would still be preferable to cover the entire audible range. The point is, there was nothing wrong or ridiculous about thinking that a subwoofer is a good supplement to loudspeakers, even properly designed ones. There are some that don't need a separate subwoofer, but they're relatively few, and that's because they have drivers capable of reproducing that range already built into them. But most loudspeakers, especially ones that aren't ultra-expensive audiophile loudspeakers, don't have drivers like that built into them.

 

[mitchflorida]

Floor-standing speakers tend to have 6 or 7 inch subwoofers. . That just can't compete with a 12 inch sub . . physically impossible.

And how do we expect head-phones to have that kind of bass response?

 

[RoMee]

Quote:

I have a good pair of Sennheiser HD-598 headphones.  I used to listen to it morning , noon and night .. instead of a normal stereo system .  Now I barely use it, mainly at night so as not to disturb the neighbors.   
 
There is no way headphones can match a good stereo system, even one that is about $800 or less .
 
I have 2 Polk Monitor 75T speakers, a Polk PSW 505 subwoofer and Sherwood receiver 100 Watt RMS per channel. 
 
Sorry, but there is  no headphone that can compete with a real stereo speaker set-up.   
 
So why do people still prefer headphones?

I wish I can do the same, but my situation won't let me enjoy a nice setup, so I'm stuck with headphones. 

 

[KT66]

.

 

[KT66]

 size isn't everything, by your argument, Quad Electrostatics are terrible for classical music!  

 

[3X0]

Find your system's roll-off and everything past that point is what you're potentially missing out on.
 
I have D7000s which are well-regarded for sub-bass, and my simple stereo system with an SVS sub destroys it when it comes to the low-end.
 
I like my speakers for casual listening and my headphones for when I want to peer into a recording.

 

[KT66]

My Rogers LS5/9 (modern equiv Harbeth 30) Standmounters are 50hz to 16khz -
doesn't look like I am missing much
 
measurements are no way to choose equipment, IMHO of course

 

[mitchflorida]

You are just missing anything under 50 hz. lol

I was surprised about the low range of the harp. If you want to do a quick test of your system, demo some harp music. It can be very difficult to record because there is no place to "hide" distortion anywhere in the mix.

 

[GREQ]

Most hifi speakers and headphones are measured very modestly - almost all good headphones and speakers will produce notes down to 20hz but because of sometimes significant bass roll-off, the companies chose to slap on a higher number to the final tech-specs.

One company that regularly doesn't practice this for example is Sony, which will often happily put something seemingly outrageous like 5-35,000Hz as a frequency response for a relatively cheap bit of kit with significant roll off on both ends - but the fact is, it was able to produce those notes in a real test environment.
 

Quote:

Are you suggesting if a person is listenting to music with a lot of bass guitar, for example, that it makes more sense to leave off a good chunk of the music from being reproduced, or that it's not necessary? Can't agree with that.

How often does a bass guitarist actually play the bottom E? I'd hardly call that a "good chunk of the music" - the low E on a bass is 41Hz, and most speakers can play that at audible volumes, in relative balance with the rest of the sound.
 
The problem with sub-woofers is that they are extremely dependant on the environment. They sound totally different depending on the room they're in, the location of the sub in the room and YOUR location in the room.
Also they can easily dominate the entire sound which isn't true to reality. Human ears naturally perceive lower notes as being LOWER VOLUMES even when they are in fact the same volume as higher notes. 
 
If the thread was about dubstep or electronic music, I'd be saying "yeah man, go for it!" but since classical came up, I just can't agree. 
(and to answer the previous purile question, I have heard of a cello - I've been playing and performing in orchestras, esembles, quartets, choirs, and bands for about 18 years (playing violin, viola, guitar, bass guitar and voice); which is about double the time I've been into hifi gear)

 

[Focker]

Headphones can't come close to doing what my speakers can do, but I never had any notions they could. I love headphones cause I don't always feel like sitting in my listening room in the sweet spot listening to music. With headphones I have great sound in bed, at the office, lying on the couch, on the toilet, wherever. Last I checked, phones and speakers weren't mutually exclusive...so why not do both? 

 

[mitchflorida]

The problem with sub-woofers is that they are extremely dependant on the environment. They sound totally different depending on the room they're in, the location of the sub in the room and YOUR location in the room.
Also they can easily dominate the entire sound which isn't true to reality. Human ears naturally perceive lower notes as being LOWER VOLUMES even when they are in fact the same volume as higher notes. 

It really sounds like you have never owned a subwoofer. You would know that the location of the subwoofer is up to you . . you can move it wherever it gives you the most satisfactory result. Also , a subwoofer has a volume control. . you can turn it down to next to nothing or up to the max so that is all you can hear.

 

[Tangster]

People prefer headphones for reasons of cost, less intrusion and space constraints? I simply don't have the money or space for a high end speaker setup and must "settle" for $400 monitors. While they sound good, they don't match my high end headphones and certainly aren't as unrestrictive in their use.

 

[tan1415]

hmm interesting post...bit misplaced though.
 
IMO a musical subwoofer is almost a contradiction in terms. Musicality doesnt mean that its focus that it goes low and hard( like HT subwoofer) but should complement and add to the mainspeakers.
 
It's not a question about turning the gain/volume of the subwoofer. But all about setting up the speakers correctly so that they form a single unit.
Besides the setup its also about the technical ability of subwoofers themselves. They need to be fast and controlled and...musical. Sadly most subwoofers are just not able to do this. Most subwoofers stick out like a sore thumb when playing music. Anyway these musical subwoofers don't go really low or have a lot of thump in them. But are ridiculously expensive.
 
Btw if you want a good low end to speakers....the best setup I heard was an actively powered speaker set. Each woofer of the speaker was driven by the same seperate amplifier.Combined with a good pre amp perfect sound.
 
PS if your budget is midlevel and you like music. Better ignore a subwoofer and instead buy a more expensive speakers with better lowend.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Low bass Is non-directional. And "most" subwoofers (as in, cheap subwoofers) are irrelevant to whether a subwoofer can or can't be a useful addition. Also, those good subwoofers you mentioned usually go very, very low. Much lower than the cheap, obvious subwoofers, actually.