[FenrirIO]

Hi,
I recently bought me a Sennheiser HD800 and it sounded great with my old E17+E09 combo.​
 
Last week though my e09 stopped working and I was thinking about just buying myself a new higher quality amp.
 
So to the questions: How will my HD800 perform with an M-Stage HPA3U, do you bypass the internal M-Stage DAC when you connect an external dac with RCA, and if yes, which DAC should I get to use in a combo with it?
 
I have been following the head-fi audiophile scene for quite a while, and it's because of several recommendations I've seen here that I decided to get the HD800.
 
So any help I could get on this matter would be wonderful.

 

[cel4145]

I have no experience with the M-Stage HPA-3U. But given Matrix's reputation, I imagine it would be a good DAC/amp. In the same budget range, I have the Audio-GD NFB-11, which is a nice combo unit.

Why would you want to bypass the internal DAC in the HPA-3U? Perhaps you could describe your setup more?

 

[FenrirIO]

For the reason that I want to upgrade the DAC in the future without replacing the amp.

Right up to now my setup was singlePC with jplay -> E17+E09 combo -> HD800.

I've read that the M-Stage amp has a good synergy with the Hd800 (just want more views on that), but the DAC leaves something to be desired.

 

[cel4145]

You'll have to check the M-Stage HPA-3U to see if it has any analog inputs if you want to hook a different DAC into it.

I can't help you on synergy. I don't buy into the idea that one person's experience with DAC + headphone amp synergy with headphones is transferable to other people. If/when audible differences exist between DAC + headphone amps, the differences will be small and will suit one person more than another. In other words, any synergy is a completely individualistic thing, IMO.

 

[FenrirIO]

I understand that, everything is individual.

I might have worded myself a bit wrong though. The "which DAC to get" question was a general question and not which one that was best in use with that exact amp. But yeah, the M-Stage has RCA input.

 

[cel4145]

I understand that, everything is individual.

Well, but if you and I have heard headphone A & B (so we have a frame of reference), then one of us could communicate well enough to make a recommendation that is meaningful for headphone C. Differences between headphones are >>> big compared to differences between amps/dacs. Once again, assuming the described sonic differences between DAC/amps can be trusted (given the problematic nature of subjective listening tests), you could use EQ to add a +1 db boost here, a -1 db drop there, and that's a much bigger difference than between different sounding DAC/amps. To me, it's a bit like someone telling me that they like five more grains of salt in pizza slice A for a pizza that I have never tried. IMO, zero reliability that the experience will be the same for me.

 

[FenrirIO]

I get that. My problem is that I can't try out 4-5-6 amps or DACs and figure out which sounds good or bad in any combination as there are only two music stores in Haugesund, and they only let you try out their headphones connected to your phone, and I haven't been allowed to try out any DAC/amp combo at all.
 
This is also why I ask here on the forum as I know alot of the users here have experience with all combinations of DAC/amp/HP.

 

[cel4145]

I get that. My problem is that I can't try out 4-5-6 amps or DACs and figure out which sounds good or bad in any combination as there are only two music stores in Haugesund, and they only let you try out their headphones connected to your phone, and I haven't been allowed to try out any DAC/amp combo at all.

This is also why I ask here on the forum as I know alot of the users here have experience with all combinations of DAC/amp/HP.

Yeah. Me, too, same problem. I look at measurements and consider what people say generally about whether an amp (or DAC) is good or not. But I ignore synergy recommendations. Just doesn't seem to offer any reliability to me.

 

[FenrirIO]

But anyway, thanks for your help. Now I can add the M-Stage to my list of considerations. I wasn't sure if the DAC was bypassable as alot of reviews wrote the built in DAC as a "con". Have to decide on something soon though, my E17 is far from enough to drive my HD800.

 

[cel4145]

In the same general price range, you might consider the Schiit Asgard 2 coupled with a Schiit Modi, a JDS Labs Element, or an Audio-GD NFB-15 or NFB-11. Although the Audio-GDs will not allow for hooking up an external DAC.

 

[FenrirIO]

Thanks for the recommendations.
 
I know you can't answer this, but would it be a good idea to get the M-Stage HPA-3B?
 
I do plan to get myself some balanced cables for my HD800, and by buying the HPA-3B I wouldn't need to replace the amp in the future. Of course that leaves me without a DAC but I like that modi, so might pick one of those up as well.

 

[cel4145]

I don't know. I don't buy into the balanced cables benefit either.

 

[inthere]

Forget the balanced cables. Get the HPA-3U. Too warm up things even more look into tube amps. I hear Little Dot is great and I own the Project Ember which is awesome. I also own the Aune T1 mk2 which is also great but I don't think it'll drive the HD800's. 

 

[porkfried]

I don't know if the balanced cables do much, but the HPA-3U and HPA-3B have pretty different specs, including a fair amount more power for balanced:
 
 
Headphone power output unbalanced: 2100mW @ 33ohms; 430mW @300ohms; 220mW @600ohms
SNR: >-108dB
THD: 0.0004% at 300ohms 320mW 1kHz
Output Impedance: 0.4ohms
 
Headphone power output balanced: 3800mW @ 33ohms; 1500mW @ 300ohms; 800mW @ 600ohms
SND: >-114dB
THD: 0.0003 at 300ohms 135 mW 1kHz
Output Impedance: 0.6ohms
 
from: http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow