[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier If the noise is from the source (CDP, tape player, etc.), then, yes, noise increases with the volume. I can't speak for every configuration, but any decent audio system today should not have audible noise with the volume turned up.

What is your system that you are using, from source to headphones?

It is far easier to understand another person's point of view, when you know what configuration they are using.

-Ed

 

[Twombly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood What is your system that you are using, from source to headphones? It is far easier to understand another person's point of view, when you know what configuration they are using. -Ed

I would like to know what amplifier he's using as well, and also how he didn't go deaf testing this hypothesis. That's a lot for one man to sacrifice in the name of science.

 

[PhilS]

I guess the assumption is that we talking about "amplifier noise," right? If you are talking about noise from your power, it makes sense that a power conditioner could reduce that noise doesn't it?

Also, I don't see why it is so difficult to grasp the concept that sometimes there is noise that you are not consciously aware of, but that you notice the elimination of noise when it is reduced or eliminated. For example, there was one occasion when I was listening to my IEM's in my car, and it sounded just fine, but then when took my phones out of my ear for a second to talk to someone and noticed the radio was on. I turned it off, put my IEM's back in, and the difference in sound was remarkable. The radio sound was not something I was actively hearing before I removed my phones, however. I have had similar experiences while listening to headphones while my wife is watching TV. I don't hear the TV at all, even if I listen for it and try to hear what is happening on a program that looks interesting, but several times when I have been sitting here withy my eyes closed, I have noticed immediately when she turned off the TV, or brought up an on-screen guide, which muted the sound. Thus, the notion that, if you can't hear noise or a noise floor, a reduction in noise or the noise floor will not be audible is not correct in my view. Just like you can't tell if you are looking at white or something that is absolutely clear until you see something that actually is 100% white or 100% clear in comparison. You might not think you are seeing fog or hearing noise until it is removed, right? Am I missing something?

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood It is far easier to understand another person's point of view, when you know what configuration they are using.

My POV is in agreement with Professor Rolleigh. Hope that helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Dr. Richard Rolleigh, one of the world's leading physicists in the area of acoustic research... He told me to spend my money on the speakers, because that's the only part of the system that has a significant effect on the sound in terms of dollar for dollar worth.

 

[PhilS]

"He told me to spend my money on the speakers, because that's the only part of the system that has a significant effect on the sound in terms of dollar for dollar worth."

This is a value judgment. Note the words "only," "significant," and "dollar for dollar worth." His veiwpoint may be right for him. His viewpoint may also be right for others (although hopefully others don't take his judgments on blind faith but do their own listening or evaluation first). But his judgment may be absolutely, flat dead wrong, or of no persuasive impact whatsover, for others. And being a physicist does not necessarily establish that his value judgments are any better than any one else's. It may establish that they are more likely than not to be correct for those in HIS situation. And it may identify some of the important factors to consider. But "dollar for dollar" worth can vary by individual.

P.S. Edwood, nice try re the "configuration." But you rarely get a straight answer to this question, for reasons I can never quite figure.

 

[omedon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl Someone said noise is *less* audible at loud volumes, but I disagree. It would seem to me (as a layman) that "noise floor" is variable with volume. If you listen to an analog recording, tape hiss (the "noise floor" of the recording) can be invisible at very low volumes, crank it up, and suddenly you have very loud hiss. You can hear this effect with your headphones when you crank your headamp to very loud volumes with no signal passing. The noise level increases with volume.

I don't see what you are getting at with the tape hiss as the "noise floor" of the recording. If you are playing a CD of an old jazz recording and it has tape hiss then that is not "noise" at all. It is every bit a part of the recording or "signal" as the trumpet.

Am I missing something?

 

[markl]

Omedon, it's just an analogy for the phenomenon of rising background hiss you can observe when you crank your amp with no signal.

Quote:

If the noise is from the source (CDP, tape player, etc.), then, yes, noise increases with the volume. I can't speak for every configuration, but any decent audio system today should not have audible noise with the volume turned up.

This is very easy to test, just crank the volume on your headamp with no signal being passed. What do you hear? Rising levels of hiss. You can do the same with with your speakers and multi-watt amps. This is audible with the source turned on or off, it's coming from the amp itself. My gear is very high-quality, too. I've observed this phenomenon with every system/configuration I've ever owned, it's just a fact of life. The noise *is* there, it does rise with volume (if you crank it far enough). How audible is that noise when playing at regular volumes, or how much/little does it affect sound we can hear, and how much is that noise level affected by various forms of power conditioning/regeneration? Have no answers to those q's.