[jaybar]

I hope that this does not lead to a flame war regarding the virtues or lack thereof pertaining to after market power cords.

I would just like to report that I have never found a component more sensitive to power cord changes than the Stax SRM 717.

I use Shunyata power snakes in my system and have had the opportunity to try three power cords on this amp. With the now discontinued Taipan Alpha, the sound was vesomewhat recessed in the midrange with peaky "highs".

Substituting the Taipan Alpha Helix, has yielded a HUGE improvement in terms of eliminating the rcessed mids and peaky high frequencies. Substituting the now discontinued Python Alpha has given added weight and "humanness", but lacks the refinement of the Taipan Alpha Helix-Maybe even a bit too much weight. Not sure yet. Technically the new Taipan Alpha Helix outperforms the python alpha in terms of more refined highs and more even handed bass, but the Python Alpha might be more synergistic in my system.

I realize that power cords are very system dependent and I also realize that it may not make any financial sense to use a $700 or $1000 power cord.

I just wanted to share how resolving the Stax SRM 717/404 system really is and how much of the 404's supposed deficiencies might be ammeliored by really great power cords.

I wonder whether these power cords would have the same effect on the SRM 717/OII pairing?

I am not saying that you must spend vast sums on a power cord to get good performance out of the SRM 717. I think that is system and power quality dependent.

I am just very surprised how sensitive the SRM 717 is to power cord changes.

All the best,

Jay

 

[Jahn]

congrats jay! and that 'stat system has the specs to really be revealing - i'm glad you're enjoying the tunes from it even more now!

 

[Paul L]

I've been lurking for a short while and felt obliged to register in order to support Jay's findings. I'll get around to profile etc. in due course.

It's a few years since I listened to headphones rather than speakers and neighbours, parenting etc. accounts for my increased interest in headphones. My Senn HD600/X-Can V2 set-up has left me cold and whilst I know there is a following for better amps with the Senns on the US side of the pond, it's a bit harder establishing that here in the UK i.e. the opportunity to borrow amps at home. I will do so in due course as I rate the X-Can down there with all other Musical Fidelity offerings, not wishing to flame on a first post, just IMHO etc.

So, I borrowed an allegedly well run-in demo Stax SR-404/SRM-313 from my local dealer and read through reviews of various Stax on the web and foum comments etc. I've not yet tried the tube amps but I am now familiar with the alleged strengths, limitations and characteristics of the various earspeakers and amps and it has been quite fascinating to read it whilst listening over the past week.

Basically, I wa snot that impressed to start with, I did not like the brightness and aggression and I soon decided to leave them running 24x7 around heavy books as is advocated rather than open as it were. So, each morning I get a short listen and evening a longer listen and I do not believe they were run-in. They have continued to improve greatly. I have experimented with power cables though and was stunned at the immediate impact of removing grain and aggression, it really took my surprise. I'm all too familiar with the w*nky wire scepticism in audio and the psycho-babble which we all struggle with but the audible effect was not imagined and is clearly repeatable, whatever the reason for it. I disagree that one should name cable sspecifically because cables are so system and room dependent and not a universal cure in my opinion. My conclusion so far has been that Stax amps seem sensitive to choice of power cable and can make the difference between a virtuous but flawed product and something much, much better.

My sources btw are a SME10,309 Magnesium/Benz glider-II/EAR-834P Deluxe & MC3 step-ups for vinyl and a Marantz CD63-MKII-KIS. The latter gets most listening for convenience and I may change it along the way but swapping CD players regularly is just not high enough on my agenda compared with vinyl listening and a bunch of other things in life in general. Just felt obliged to concur with Jay from my own brief experiences.

 

[edstrelow]

I haven't tried any $700.00 power cords, but my $60.00/$80.00 ones have helped both my 717/404 and the older SRM3. I also go to the trouble of plugging it directly into the wall socket, if possible, rather than using a power strip. Pro-gold on the prongs can also give a boost to performance.

Like Jaybar I was also blown away by what my first powercord grade did to the sound of the Stax SRM3/Lambda.

 

[jaybar]

As I said when I started the thread, I had hoped that this would not deteriorate into a pointless discussion about the merits or foolishness regarding after market power cords.

I hope that those who are determined to denegrate the value of power cords in a rather knee-jerk and condescending fashion refrain from participating in this discussion.

I have been into high-end audio since 1982 and I have found that after market power cords lend a significant improvement in a number of instances, but by no means in a universal manner. In fact, some equipment such as Naim, might perform worse-although even NAIM has just changed the "stock" power cord they provide, which they claim offers better performance. Ray Samuels gear is also relatively immune to power cord changes.

I have an Ayre integrated amp an Ayre CDP and an Ayre phono stage. Ayre recommends and designs their equipment using Cardas power cords. Ayre will have their own power cords, made to their specifications by Cardas. I prefer the Shunyata power cords with my Ayre gear, but its purely a matter of taste.

Previously, I had a Grace M902 headphone amp. I had the opportunity to discuss the unit with Michael Grace at some length, who indicate that SOME power cords could significantly improve the unit's performance, but others would have no effect or a negative effect.

I think that using power cords is like finding the right seasoning when creating a great recipe. Sometimes the seasoning transforms the dish into something special and sometimes its just "average" and sometimes its down right inedable.

All I am saying is that I found the SRM 717 relatively more sensative to power cords than other gear in my system and that the performance ranged from poor using the Shunyata Taipan Alpha to mediocre using the stock cord to significantly improved using the Taipan Helix or Python cords.

BTW, if the moderators want to move this thread to the cables and twaeks forum, feel free to do so.

Peace,

Jay

 

[jjcha]

w00t!!!

Congrats Jay on finding a good tweak for the SR404 rig!! I know you were pretty happy with it, but that it wasn't perfect. Sounds like this is a very nice step in the right direction. Personally, I've always liked the SR404, even just out of a 313.

Still, and I hate to bust your wallet more, but I wonder if maybe you should be looking into a vintage Omega 1 or Lambda Pro. I'm in Japan right now and asked one of my old headphone dealers about the best way to find vintage Stax. Unfortunately, looks like I'll be prowling Yahoo Japan Auctions and eBay like everyone else.

We'll have an electrostat mini-meet once my HE90 amp is finished.

Best,

-Jason

 

[Snake]

I'm going to chime in a controversial issue with another thought - that power cords may, or may not, make a difference in the rig depending upon the design of the component that the power cord is being used on.

My opinions and thoughts: a component - amp, preamp, CDR, whatever - that has an oversized power supply (very stiff regulation or "thick" ripple filtering, etc.) will hear less effect than one with where the power supply is more closely matched, more or less, to the demands of the balance of the system.

Theoretically a power cord should not make a big difference...yet some people notice a difference, on some equipment. A amp with a "huge" power supply, with large filtering caps etc., will (and maybe) notice less of the power cord effect than an amp which lacks this.

 

[Patrick82]

I thought power cords had already been proven by someone here...

Anyway, with high resolution headphones the difference is pretty obvious, it is ridiculous to call it placebo because it isn't. Unless the whole Universe is a big placebo, it's all in the head...

Actually I haven't experienced the placebo effect ever in my life, by ignorance I upgraded to something that shouldn't have made a difference and after 3 weeks I still didn't hear a difference even when I had high expectations. I try to be neutral...

I can hear a night and day difference between single and dual 'Micro Mono-filament' technology. The former is thin and lifeless sounding while the latter sounds dynamic and exciting, it is impossible not to hear the difference with my K1000. But I haven't done a DBT to "prove" something so yeah, skeptics would say I am having a placebo...I don't care. I trust my "fine tuned sensitive "flawed" measuring devices" (ears) instead of a simple formula on a little piece of paper that proves nothing.

P.S. Power cords are snake oil for ipod users...

 

[MD1032]

It could be possible that the power cords are faulty, that is, one of the power cords sounds better than the other two because it has less of itself coiled up, or has better insulation. Perhaps the other two cords are physically causing electrical interference that you're interpreting as "worse" sound, or the electrostats and finicky and can't tolerate any interference. At any rate, this is all highly unlikely since these are higher-end power cords (whatever that means), so I'm guessing it's simply placebo, but listen with the "worse" power cords for any weird low-level noise, buzzing, or humming. This could be the source of your problem.

 

[jaybar]

Thanks Jason and others for your support.

For the record, I already had all 3 power cords in the house for some time. They wee well broken in and already paid for.

Its not as if I was auditioning with the possibility of purchase and trying to convince myself to justify spending the dollars.

If anything, it woukl have been to my advantage to conclude no effect and sell-off one of the power cords.

The cords were not defective in any way. They were installed in exactly the same manner. I don't coil my power cords and all were "laid down" in exactly the same way.

I started the post with the idea of sharing what I found, in the hope that those using the Stax 717 amp might wish to experiment.

I am not looking to convert anyone who thinks that power cords have no or minimal effect. If that is how you feel --GREAT. However, there are ways of communicating this, that are refreshingly free from dogmatic exchanges and might even more likely help us to learn from each other.

For example, statements like "in my system, with the following equipment, I have not found".... or "I have tried the following power cords on these components and cannot detect any difference".

Peace.

Jay

.

 

[Cerebral_Mamba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Yeah, you're probably right that this type of thread shouldn't be sht all over. Sorry to the OP. To the rest of your post: Uh, yeah. Good luck dismissing those formulas you detest so much- they're going to be your lifeblood if you graduate in engineering, my friend. [edit] jaybar- PM me if you want the straight scoop.

Lucky for Zenja that today schools educate engineers not only to solve problems that already exists but also ones that are yet to exist.

If there is an improvement in sound quality by changing power chords, then it is much wiser to search and research as to why than sit in your basement crapping out all you are worth for. Just because you haven't read any scientific explanation doesn't mean no one else haven't found it and even if no one else haven't found it doesn't mean it isn't true.. after all, all these companies that make better power chords can't be all out there to plunder the ignorant masses.

As for the explanation, I am convinced after reading your in-experienced yet demanding posts that even if someone comes out with it, you head is stuck way down in sludge that you won't even understand... and no matter what you say, I believe that the earth goes around the sun!!!

EDIT: There are also pleanty that go all out against burn-in effects.... now that I call is the pacebo effect, only in the reverse order.

 

[MD1032]

It seems like a case of placebo to be honest. Power cords to not need to be "broken in". They either work properly, or they do not. Still, if this is what you need to discover your system's best sound, then so be it. Personally, though, I'd be willing to bet there would be no difference in a double blind test.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybar However, there are ways of communicating this, that are refreshingly free from dogmatic exchanges and might even more likely help us to learn from each other.

I will have to do a personal in home visit to inspect your system.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun Excuse me, how much is a "Nordost Valhalla"?

They have increased the price to $2750 because people like them so much, that cable is the closest to perfection in this hobby so far, it does nothing wrong! I have a few of these hardwired and I will save up for more, they are that good. When someone starts fasting to afford something, then it is really good.

Trust me, I have tested these power cords, obviously.

 

[DanG]

I just went through this thread and removed the DBT (double-blind test) discussion regarding cables and whether they actually make a difference. The Cables/Tweaks forum is "DBT-free" as indicated in its title, but that doesn't mean that we allow discussion of cable double-blind testing in other forums either.

The individual posts were deleted so that this discussion can continue as originally intended. If you feel that your post wasn't out of line, it may very well not have been but was deleted simply as part of a discussion that shouldn't have taken place at all. If you have questions about the policy, please send a private message to one of the moderators.