[FrostyMMB]

I'd also like to mention the cable upgrading that lots of people do with their Senn 580/600/650. Its similar in that you are replacing a supplied part with a different one, resulting in preferrable audible changes. Likewise with Grados, you can changes the pads and choose the one that you prefer, though it is not necessarily an upgrade but rather a tradeoff.

 

[Permonic]

Kartik is right. You can easily locate the source of the brightness: put the bowls away and listen to the "naked" cans. They would still sound bright, however in "normal" levels. The earpads design is the key factor of the brightness and an Achilles heel of the entire Grado line.

SR-325's produce terrific details due to the aluminium chambers. Mahogany has higher porosity, damping is higher and less detail is occured. I guess RS-2's, which have the same size of air chambers, might be less detailed.

Grados are supra-aural: they are strongly ear proximity dependant. Bowls in fact increase that proximity and increase the brightness. If you don't have flat ears (ear pinna), bowls (which are round) don't seal enough and sound leakage (between your ears and the drivers) increase the brightness even more. I haven't figured out the advantages of bowls pads yet. It seems to be wrong way to produce more circumaural sound by using conical shape of the bowls only. Supra-aural cans should be positioned near to your ears as much as possible.

Flat pads solve at least the proximity issue.

 

[bifcake]

You guys make an interesting case with regard to changing the distance between the driver and the ear. I would have to think about that. I heard the entire Grado line, but only with the standard pads. I'll have to check them out with the flat pads at the next NY meet.

 

[FrostyMMB]

Good analysis Permonic.

In upgrading from the SR325 to the RS-1, I noticed the softening of detail due to the difference in chamber material. The SR325 has razor sharp detail, and I found the tonal balance tolerable with Senn pads, but at the time the flats pads weren't easily available. The RS-1 is more smooth in the presentation of detail. I am intrigued by the PS-1 Pro in that it uses aluminum (unless it's another kind of alloy) and has RS-1 sized chambers. Not only that but the apparent shift in tonality for studio use may also prove to be desireable in comparison to the coloring of the RS-1. I await more reviews from members here who are lucky enough to get a hold of them.

I'm beginning to wonder what Grado Labs could accomplish by taking a different approach to constructing a new headphone. Being such a small company makes experimentation costly and unlikey, but by designing a whole new chamber along the lines of typical headphone offerings from other manufacturers and building drivers to work well in them, it would be interesting to hear the end result. With tradition set in the current design and John apparently happy with it, sadly I don't see it happening.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake I think you guys should make a doctor's appointment first thing tomorrow and have your ears checked. I think you suffer from limited deafness due to your inability to resolve high frequencies. The 325's are not just bright, they're screeching bright. Very painful phones. Probably the brightest in the Grado line. So, the bad news is that you may have limited hearing, but the good news is that it's the ears that go first.

That is a terrible misconception, and if you got that information from your doctor, he should have his lisence revoked. If we were all clones, a blanket statement such as that would apply. We all have our own unique thresholds, some find higher frequencies painful, some don't. And before you ask, I just had a hearing test a little over 2 months ago, and I do not suffer from any hearing loss whatsoever.

 

[screwdriver]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake I think you guys should make a doctor's appointment first thing tomorrow and have your ears checked. I think you suffer from limited deafness due to your inability to resolve high frequencies. The 325's are not just bright, they're screeching bright. Very painful phones. Probably the brightest in the Grado line. So, the bad news is that you may have limited hearing, but the good news is that it's the ears that go first.

this statement can be either true or false .
this depends on your overall system .
some sources of brightness are the source , materials , cables.

 

[bifcake]

Quote:

Originally posted by EyeAmEye That is a terrible misconception, and if you got that information from your doctor, he should have his lisence revoked. If we were all clones, a blanket statement such as that would apply. We all have our own unique thresholds, some find higher frequencies painful, some don't. And before you ask, I just had a hearing test a little over 2 months ago, and I do not suffer from any hearing loss whatsoever.

In that case, I surmise that the good news is that the eyes are the ones that go first.

 

[bhd812]

when i paired up my 325's with my new ra-1 amp i went crazy..i posted a thread about the experience a while back.

 

[Steve999]

I think there should be a forum rule against insulting other people's hearing. What possible use could it serve? What does it do other than strain the fabric of the community?

Great impressions eyeameye, as a fellow CD780 fan, your liking of the SR325s certainly gets my interest. I guess they don't call the SR325s the best rock cans on earth for nothing. And I commend you for spending your money where, IMHO, it makes a genuine difference -- on the headphones.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Thank you Steve999. It took me a long time to finally decide to take the bait on the Grados, but I'm glad I did. And, for the record, it was your recommendation of the CD780 that convinced me to try those (the $31 refurb deal helped

).
Since you are a big fan of the CD780, you'd probably like the SR325 as well. It is more "in your face", but IMO it shares very similar qualities. I find the CD780 brighter, in fact, using the Grado flat pads. The bowl pads make the SR325 roughly on par in brightness with the 780. The CD780 has a better soundstage though, so if a condensed sound bothers you, the SR325 may fail you there. I find however that the smaller soundstage is better for hard rock/metal, which is my main listening preference, but the CD780 does an admiral job with it anyway, the SR325 is just better.
As for comfort, which was another reason I held out for so long on Grado, was surprsing comfortable, atleast to me, anyway. Being a previous avid supporter of the true "Head-Vice Of Death", the Sennheiser HD-25, the SR325 fits firmly on my head, but feels comfortable, and so far I don't find the flat pads abrasive to my ears.
Working on a limited budget, I tried to target the most effective change, so it's my opinion as well that the headphones would make the most immediate difference. I'm happy, so atleast for now, I'm keeping the can of worms closed.

 

[bifcake]

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve999 I think there should be a forum rule against insulting other people's hearing. What possible use could it serve? What does it do other than strain the fabric of the community?

Steve,

It was a joke. BTW, do you think it would ok to insult people's sense of humor?

 

[Permonic]

Quote:

Originally posted by FrostyMMB Good analysis Permonic.

Thanks.

Quote:

I am intrigued by the PS-1 Pro in that it uses aluminum (unless it's another kind of alloy) and has RS-1 sized chambers. Not only that but the apparent shift in tonality for studio use may also prove to be desireable in comparison to the coloring of the RS-1. I await more reviews from members here who are lucky enough to get a hold of them.

I wonder whether PS-1's have the same frequency responce (12-30) as RS-1's and MS Pro...
Quote:

I'm beginning to wonder what Grado Labs could accomplish by taking a different approach to constructing a new headphone. Being such a small company makes experimentation costly and unlikey, but by designing a whole new chamber along the lines of typical headphone offerings from other manufacturers and building drivers to work well in them, it would be interesting to hear the end result. With tradition set in the current design and John apparently happy with it, sadly I don't see it happening.

Your statement is right, FrostyMMB.

Grados are Rolls-Royce in headphones world: traditional design, but still treated like a cream on a cake. But my point of view is that all the great design of Grados suddenly ends with the earpads. As I aready wrote, the weak point is the "chamber - ear pinna" passage: that means earpads: the design reflects 60's. Specificaly for suprauaral phones, this passage affects the sonical properties a lot. It's not only about comfort isuue.

A designer should focus more on earpads design. It seems to me that this area is underestimated. Either bowls, flats, comfies or senns/vwap mods represent almost the same simple round shape design with no involvement of a dapming (flats) or underdamping (bowls). It only partially take into account both ear pinna shape and ear canal axis position. Solving this problem might improves both sonic properties (decrease the unwanted brightness, increase the on-stage definition, thus the details) and also the comfort.

And it doesn't take much time: R&D is about the idea(s). Once you have the idea in your mind, it's easy to progress. Well, from my experience, it took me 2 (last) months to design new earpads for Grado/Alessandro cans.

 

[UberNewb]

I sure hope the SR 325's make me happy... guess I will order a set of flat pads to go along with them so I can try both.

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally posted by EyeAmEye I find however that the smaller soundstage is better for hard rock/metal, which is my main listening preference, but the CD780 does an admiral job with it anyway, the SR325 is just better.

It takes metal to play metal. The attack on the guitar plucks is breathtaking with even the fastest speed-metal around.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by kartik It takes metal to play metal. The attack on the guitar plucks is breathtaking with even the fastest speed-metal around.

I agree, they sure had a great sound for metal, albiet (in the end) very fatiguing for me. There is a comparison of the CD3000 and SR325 in the featured reviews section that talks about the main flaw I felt the Grados had, which was a lack of body, as the emphasize the attack of the instruments (hence the great impact) at the expense of accurate decay, which makes heavy guitars sound lean in comparison to other comprable high-end cans. If it were a perfect world, you could get both from the same headphone, but for now the best one could do is have a Grado and another high-end can. The Stax have great speed and body, but lack a bit of visceral impact.