[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiWire What really ticks most of us off, I imagine, is the fact that audio quality is backsliding, not improving like we would expect/desire.

And I have started a thread in the Dedicated Sources forum showing that this backsliding in sound quality has spilled over into the full-sized audio components, as well.

Blame that on cost-cutting and boneheaded decisions by the makers of full-sized audio components. That thread in which I linked to shows that we all will have to spend a lot more money than we did a few years ago just to get even mid-fi sound quality, let alone true audiophile sound quality.

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bln brilliant, and about time someone said all that. i say, just be glad music can be made portable at all, pick what's convenient to use, and listen to the music without getting hung up on what's hi-fi and what's not.

seconded.

but fwiw, the zen xtra has a relatively beefy output, widely acknowledged above-decent sound and a decent size.

 

[bootman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver And I have started a thread in the Dedicated Sources forum showing that this backsliding in sound quality has spilled over into the full-sized audio components, as well. Blame that on cost-cutting and boneheaded decisions by the makers of full-sized audio components. That thread in which I linked to shows that we all will have to spend a lot more money than we did a few years ago just to get even mid-fi sound quality, let alone true audiophile sound quality.

But the sad part is that for the most part the general public
(and a lot of head-fiers here)
are happy with these low-fi products.
MP3s are to blame.
It has become the "standard" format for a lot of people.
No wonder they don't hear any differences.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Now I know the problem - it's called GENERAL PUBLIC/TARGET for marketing.

Why bother improving sound quality if the general public won't hear the difference anyway? Think about it - how many people can hear the difference between a 160kbps to a CD - heck, even 128kbps, and how many people are unhappy with their 128kbps or 160kbps MP3s? Last time I asked my housemate (which has very crappy PCDP MP3 player), he's already happy with 96kbps MP3s!

Best part is - When I asked him to hear high quality files with my NJB3 + TA '04 + HD650, he doesn't hear any difference...

Since better sound quality apparently doesn't sell to majority of people (not us), manufacturers choose to not improve them.

 

[bhd812]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 Now I know the problem - it's called GENERAL PUBLIC/TARGET for marketing. Why bother improving sound quality if the general public won't hear the difference anyway? Think about it - how many people can hear the difference between a 160kbps to a CD - heck, even 128kbps, and how many people are unhappy with their 128kbps or 160kbps MP3s? Last time I asked my housemate (which has very crappy PCDP MP3 player), he's already happy with 96kbps MP3s! Best part is - When I asked him to hear high quality files with my NJB3 + TA '04 + HD650, he doesn't hear any difference... Since better sound quality apparently doesn't sell to majority of people (not us), manufacturers choose to not improve them.

lol

 

[bhd812]

please keep your thoughts coming in on this subject, alot of people that have great interest will be reading this later.....

so please keep this alive, I think we might have something on our hands.


all replys have been great so far, nomatter what side you see..

you might think why would this wacko want this thread alive?,,,,


you just might benefit from it later on is all i can say....lol hehehe

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 Meh - I'm happy with my NJB3's sound quality. It's good enough for my ears

Agreed. I think it's probably the best sounding portable i own, although i do like how my DR7 sounds, too bad sharp hasn't taken up in skipping MD and Hi-MD and going for HD-based players/recorders.

 

[jumpy]

I think there are two problems at play here, the explosion of music consumption within the general public and the convergence of different technologies.

The first is caused by the advent of easily available mp3s. Everyone and there mother (moms went crazy with napster) was grabbing serving after serving of music, unlike ever before. People who rarely bought cds started downloading it all.

This in turn multiplied the size of the market for lower-end devices. Most people could care less about the apparent quality, and who can blame them when they're listening to 128kbps mp3s on an integrated soundcard and $20 computer speakers. All they were concerned about was taking their new media on the road. Here, the capacity of portable devices was an important factor because they had download several gigs of music...they never listen to, but must carry everywhere

Anywho, big electronic makers saw the change and went after the masses.

Secondly everything today seems about getting the biggest amount of devices (functionalities) crammed in one single device. Take cellphones, for e.g.; you can get a phone with, a planner, camera, radio, modem, email, mp3s, windows, games, and yes a freaking flashlight!

The path is the same for portable audio devices, and attention to audio quality will dimish as the need to cram a color screen, picture brower, movie viewer...

Hopefully true hifi manufacturers will see the niche represented by audiophiles. Really it's the same as that which exists for non-portable equipment. Of course it will cost us, but that doesn't seem to be a problem, does it?

We'll see.

 

[Zazersmel]

Have portables EVER had good sound quality?

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zazersmel Have portables EVER had good sound quality?

Well, I would like add that some certainly do have good sound quality.
My Sony Dej 2000 for one.
This little unit sounds quite remarkable through my Stax 4040 setup.
Considering the thing runs off a 1.2v cell and is only the size of the media it
replays it can be forgiven for not sounding as good as my Arcam CD23.

I generally use it as a transport to drive an external portable dac and again as
a pure supplier of data it stacks up pretty well to the Arcam.

So as far as I am concerned my portable [pcdp+dac] when used with the Stax 4040 system is great.
The limitations become more obvious when it has to be hooked into headphones for outdoor use.

For me this the sonic battleground I have yet to win on.


Cheers

Setmenu

 

[Newman]

I’ve been reading and enjoying this forum for some time now, but as a new man in the audiophile world I didn’t feel I had much to add. This topic, however, is near and dear to my heart and I had to respond to some of the things being said.

Quote:

It's futile. No portable will ever come close in sound quality as good dedicated source. The choice is between convenience and sound quality. Some come kind of close, like the JB3, but it still can't hold a candle to a good CDP.

This is not question as I understand it. The complaint, to which I give a big AMEN, is that portable players now provide much worse sound quality than they use to. Whether this was true hi-fi or not is moot. The point is that it’s worse, much worse, that it used to be. This alone proves that it’s not an either/or choice. It IS NOT just a choice between convenience and sound quality, or it didn’t used to be. There used to be a spectrum of choices.

Quote:

People get portables because they want to carry their music around. In the outdoors, the relatively lound ambient noise levels will usually make any apreciable differences in sound quality a moot point. You need an isolated enviroment (indoors, quiet room) for that kind of critical listening and frankly why use a portable in that enviroment?

You sir are obviously not a portable user. Very few portable users, I suspect, listen while running next to freeways or freight trains. Most of us like to listen with headphones because of the higher quality sound they can provide (at least when listening to a source that doesn’t sound like it was designed for granny’s washtub band), and we like to listen in various rooms of the house, on the patio, at the cottage, at work, at school, on a plane, etc. etc. etc. Many of these environments have low ambient sound, and for those that have higher levels there are headphones that can take care of that.

Quote:

If you want true audiophile music, forget all about portables. If you want to listen to your music on the go but not get a headache doing it, go with any of the current recomendations.

I don’t think you understand the problem being addressed here. If no portable can give you true audiophile sound and anything less is not enough for you, then what are you doing in this thread, or this forum for that matter?

----

Quote:

I find this whole thread pretty crazy. How many of you could tell the difference between the iPod and a CD source, assuming you're using good quality files, while walking around with medium isolation headphones under $100 just walking around the city? I'd be willing to guess even the most hardcore of our members here would have trouble with such a test. Most of the full sized headphones, or some of the other more expensive portable headphones, would be hard pressed to stand the rigor of outdoor activity. And most portables, to maintain acceptable battery life, couldn't provide an output strong enough to drive them well.

Again, you don’t seem to understand how most people use these things. I’ve never listened to an iPod. I listen to redbook CDs and I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference between by beloved and recently departed mid-90’s Panasonic (or my laptop) and any of the new players I’ve listened too. HUGE. There is sooo much detail missing, notes clipped, textures simply gone, with the new ones it makes you cry. The violence they do to the music is stunning.

I should add that I haven’t listened to the top 3 listed here yet. The Sony DEJ2000 is just too expensive in Canada. You can’t get the iRiver’s in Calgary, and I haven’t tried the DNE-300 yet. I ended up purchasing the SL-J900, which has some very nice sounds within certain ranges, but is still missing large amount of detail that was there with my much cheaper old Panasonic. *pauses to weep* God is in the detail, and these new players are the debil. Give me half the battery life. I don’t mind carrying a few extra batteries in my case. I wouldn’t mind if the player was twice the size. That’s no big deal for me. A 10 second, defeatable buffer is plenty for my purposes, but GIVE ME DECENT SOUND QUALITY!!! Who’s with me? There has to be a market for such a product.

If you can’t hear the difference in sound then I either pity you or envy you. At this point I can’t decide which. But for better or for worse, I can, and I stand in solidarity with my brother bhd812 on this.

Sound lovers of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but our (ear) pains!

 

[bangraman]

And you're basing this complaint on a catchment sample of two PCDP's?

 

[Newman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman And you're basing this complaint on a catchment sample of two PCDP's?

Ahh, no. Did I say that anywhere? Please point it out and I’ll correct it. If you can’t find me saying that, please be good enough to correct yourself. I’ve tried all the Panasonics and all the Sony’s save the $300 DEJ2000. I have heard the iRiver 50, and an assortment of other brands too. Does that clarify things for you? Thanks for asking before judging.

 

[jmb]

The real key here is music. If you are a true music lover, you will have a portable device, so that you will not be denied your fix when your brain demands musical input. Music lovers just love to listen to music. In my opinion, you should be a music lover first and an audiophile second.

My love of music came before, and necessitates, my desire for audiophile equipment. But, I would not deny myself my music because I can't have perfect transparency and reproduction on the go. Isn't it our absolute love and need for music what underlies everything here at this site?

Let's not forget that all this audiophile obsession stems from our love of music. I hope we're not just a bunch of gadgets junkies who only think they love music?

I will never have, and definitely don't need, the best equipment and I don't drool over the latest headphone cord or CD source. But, I love music and when I am listening to my portable I am happy as a clam.

Probably because I am a music lover, not an audiophile.

If you can't find a great sounding portable set-up that conveys the energy and emotion of the music you love, then you are not trying hard enough, or you are just a poser being polemic because you think it makes you more of an "audiophile."

 

[DEMIW]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmb The real key here is music. If you are a true music lover, you will have a portable device, so that you will not be denied your fix when your brain demands musical input. Music lovers just love to listen to music. In my opinion, you should be a music lover first and an audiophile second. My love of music came before, and necessitates, my desire for audiophile equipment. But, I would not deny myself my music because I can't have perfect transparency and reproduction on the go. Isn't it our absolute love and need for music what underlies everything here at this site? Let's not forget that all this audiophile obsession stems from our love of music. I hope we're not just a bunch of gadgets junkies who only think they love music? I will never have, and definitely don't need, the best equipment and I don't drool over the latest headphone cord or CD source. But, I love music and when I am listening to my portable I am happy as a clam. Probably because I am a music lover, not an audiophile. If you can't find a great sounding portable set-up that conveys the energy and emotion of the music you love, then you are not trying hard enough, or you are just a poser being polemic because you think it makes you more of an "audiophile."

I deeply agree with you ! I am a music lover looking for a reproduction medium for my passion !