[chesebert]

So after months of back and forth comparison, recomparion, rerecomparison...I am now practically certain that that SE out of the TP is superior to Balanced.

Despite my common sense, prior knowledge, and perpetuation by the majority audiophile consensus, I have to disagree that on TP balance out is better than SE.

As you can see in my sig, my system, had I gone balanced, would be fully balanced from the DAC down. Conversing with Ayre on several occasions have convinced me that Ayre amp are meant to be driven balanced and I have to agree when using an all Ayre system. So by process of elimination any sound degradation switching from balanced to SE can only come from the source. (I always level match with my 'trusty' radioshack sound meter

So after several months of my own comparison, along with comparison done by my wife and one of my good friends who is also into audio, the only concousion I can draw is on TP SE is more musical, more liquid, more correct in timbre, more 3D, more holographic, and a little less in bass.

If you look at the TP circuit you will see that SE actually derives from Balanced, not the usual other way around, so in theory Balanced should be the higher quality output, yet that's not true in the real world. funny how theory works.

So if you feel your TP is cold, lifeless, unmusical, incorrect timbre, give SE a try

any other TP owner has anything to say regarding SE vs Balanced?

 

[xand1x]

I haven't run mine SE before. I Should try though..my amp has both SE/Balanced inputs, but like your Ayre gear my F1 is said to perform better in balanced mode.

 

[johnsonad]

Will give it a try but I like mine balanced very much. I wonder if is system dependant?

More questions came to mind. If you are running the TP SE, are you running your amp in SE mode too, or are you running the TP SE to preamp then balanced out of the preamp? And is this in your speaker rig or headphones. If you could brake it down how your system is set up and how you compaired it would help us to try it.

 

[2deadeyes]

Curious as to what interconnects you are using when in SE / balanced.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2deadeyes /img/forum/go_quote.gif Curious as to what interconnects you are using when in SE / balanced.

when I did the comparison I used Grover Sc (both XLR and RCA to ensure same cable quality/sound), now I have VD Testament RCA

I suppose you can say functionally I am running SE to my preamp, which then converts the SE to balanced and the amp input is thus balanced.

This is the spkr rig, I seldom use my headphones these days.

 

[johnsonad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif when I did the comparison I used Grover Sc (both XLR and RCA to ensure same cable quality/sound), now I have VD Testament RCA I suppose you can say functionally I am running SE to my preamp, which then converts the SE to balanced and the amp input is thus balanced. This is the spkr rig, I seldom use my headphones these days.

I wondered if you did this or not. I have similar results but opposite (if that makes sense) with my Apache. From the Apache to my Aleph is balanced. I have two balanced sources and my TT is SE. I found that there are things lost (at least with the Apache) if I convert balanced to SE (when I would use an SE set of cans vs. balanced set) or from an SE source (TT) to balanced. If I run either strait through in a balanced or SE from source to speaker it had better results then if I converted it. This is why I am in need of a good balanced phonostage (but they are expensive!).

I'm going to try running the TP SE and SE from my preamp to power amp and do some A/B with it in full balanced. Have you tried running your power amp SE so your entire rig is SE and see if there is any difference?

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonad /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wondered if you did this or not. I have similar results but opposite (if that makes sense) with my Apache. From the Apache to my Aleph is balanced. I have two balanced sources and my TT is SE. I found that there are things lost (at least with the Apache) if I convert balanced to SE (when I would use an SE set of cans vs. balanced set) or from an SE source (TT) to balanced. If I run either strait through in a balanced or SE from source to speaker it had better results then if I converted it. This is why I am in need of a good balanced phonostage (but they are expensive!). I'm going to try running the TP SE and SE from my preamp to power amp and do some A/B with it in full balanced. Have you tried running your power amp SE so your entire rig is SE and see if there is any difference?

I can't, I have an integrated

my amp output in balanced no matter what I use as input, as in the preamp converts everything to balanced automatically. There are lots of benefits using a balanced power amp, or headamp as in your case, so I would run your cans balanced regardless of the source if you able.

I am not saying SE is automatically better than balanced or vice versa, that's not true, but what is true is that TP sounds better in SE at least in my system.

 

[PITTM]

I must say, balanced is probably the 2nd most overrated concept in hifi gear after spending 10k on cabling. I was giddy to hear the headroom max balanced amp at my first meet and left thinking, wow the non balanced version sounds better I think.

 

[gregeas]

With my new speaker amp (a solid state Cary beast) driven directly by my Transporter via single-ended cables, I get a serious hum, audible from four feet away.

This forced me to try balanced...and the result is almost no hum. I'm still evaluating the overall sound, but balanced seems to be a real improvement in my case.

Note that the hum is not the result of a ground loop, which I've experienced and resolved before. And the cable runs are short: 1m.

 

[johnsonad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregeas /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my new speaker amp (a solid state Cary beast) driven directly by my Transporter via single-ended cables, I get a serious hum, audible from four feet away. This forced me to try balanced...and the result is almost no hum. I'm still evaluating the overall sound, but balanced seems to be a real improvement in my case. Note that the hum is not the result of a ground loop, which I've experienced and resolved before. And the cable runs are short: 1m.

I'm fighting a hum in my system now too. Have you tried moving your amp further away from the source/preamp and or measured DC riding the AC in your lines? PS Audio has a cool "humbuster" tool on their site that keep guide you though how to trouble shoot if if you need it.

 

[gregeas]

It's weird. I don't recall any hum with my previous Bryston amp connected directly to the Transporter. I don't have much room in my rack, but it might be interesting to play around with positioning the components. I will check the PS Audio tool. Incidentally, everything is powered through a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregeas /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's weird. I don't recall any hum with my previous Bryston amp connected directly to the Transporter. I don't have much room in my rack, but it might be interesting to play around with positioning the components. I will check the PS Audio tool. Incidentally, everything is powered through a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet.

no hum here with either connection type. not ground loop?

why are you all running TP directly to amp? TP may have problems driving low imp inputs; at least you know your distortion will rise by quite a bit

 

[gregeas]

Running direct to the amp was an attempt at simplification. As evidenced by the audiophile forum at the Slimdevices website, many people are fans of this setup. I use my Transporter as a "digital pre-amp" to convert digital signal and switch sources (including my cable box and PS3).

The RCA output can be attenuated via jumpers, but unlike the DAC1, you can't do this with the balanced output. So I ended up buying a Goldpoint passive pre (basically a stepped volume control), and this works quite nicely between the amp and Transporter.

But yeah, I'm thinking about going back to a real pre-amp someday soon. I have my eye on the Cary SLP-03.

 

[xand1x]

I'm also running direct to amp with Scott Endler Attenuators as the "preamp." My amp has high input impedance though (100,000kohm) so i've got enough breathing room.