[kernel8888]

When I first got involved with high end audio and head-fi in early 2012, there were a couple of things that became almost immediately apparent regarding the "best headphones" available at that time.
 
The Audeze LCD-2/3, Sennheiser HD800, Stax SR009, and maybe the Hifiman HE-6 were the standouts that had already seemed to reach "legendary" status and had subjectively offered the best sound available in one way or another. They had edged out the previous leaders of the market (hd-600/650, beyer dt series, akg k7xx offerings). The audeze and hd800 hovered around the 1000-2000 price brackets, and the sr009 was much more expensive but almost universally hailed as the best headphone ever produced, so that justified its cost to some degree.
 
That leads to the reason of my post- we are seeing a new wave of much more expensive offerings with the Abyss, HE-1000/X, LCD-4 but they don't seem to be gaining the reputation and legendary market leading status of their predecessors.
 
I suspect a couple of reasons for this, one being the marginal increase in performance in comparison with increase in price. Has anyone else sensed this, or have any insights to where the market is headed based on these trends?

 

[jthom320]

 I think part of it is that for most people even for summit type gear getting into the two or three thousand dollar range for headphones is out of the question.  Especially when a ton of flagships don't measure that well objectively in the first place.  Just look at things like the 812, 1840 etc etc  I mean diminishing returns hits extremely hard around 500 dollars and I'd argue that the difference between even a 300 and 3000 dollar headphone is not nearly as wide as the gulf between something like a  pair of beats and a HD 598.  I've listened to the entire HD line and owned quite a few of them and the truth is that an HD 518 gets you about 90% anything else there.  
 
Just using myself as an example.  I'm personally willing to pay a good bit more then a 518 for those last couple percentage points.  I could technically even buy some of those headphones you mentioned and I've been seriously tempted on several occasions to buy the HD 800 but there's just no way I'd ever even consider buying an HE-1000 despite all the good things I've heard.  
 
Simply put they are priced above about all but the .1% is willing to pay.  And I think that .1% is at a point where they'll pay just about anything.  The rest of us are out.
 
Edit: And don't even get me started on super high end AMP/DAC offerings.  I'd love to see a blind A/B test between something like a Modi 2 and a Yggy.  Not saying no one would hear the difference.  I'm sure some would.  I think most however probably wouldn't be able to tell.

 

[DavidA]

@kernel8888, @jthom320, I agree with both of you that the new class of $2000+ headphones have a very limited market and agree that anything above $500 is really diminishing returns.  I'm really lucky to have a friend who can afford most if not all of the hyper-summit-fi equipment and have heard many of them on my last trip to visit him last year.  One thing I found is that for me being over 50 my hearing is not as good as it used to be and getting worse so trying to obtain that last 3-5% is simply not worth it even it I could afford it since I would not always hear a difference.  Only with careful listening and going back and fort did I start to pickup the very very small differences.  Also, the differences are more a preference, not a better or worse.
 
With that said I could still hear the difference when the HD-650 was driven by a EC Balancing Act, WA22, Liquid Glass and BH Crack, it is noticeable but only with careful listening and needs well recorded music along with really good DACs like Master 7, Yggy or Pagoda.  Your entire chain needs to be up to the task.  Since most if not all of my listening is usually casual it doesn't make sense to upgrade, more or better recorded music would be a better solution since its used by all of my equipment.
 
My friend being a really generous guy gave me one of his two SR-009 and a SRM-007 since he wasn't using it, he got them from a friend who was cleaning out is house to make room for newer stuff so he got them for a great price.  Only bummer is that the SRM-007 was working when I got back to Hawaii but after a month it developed some issues so I my friend took it back to Japan to get it repaired, still waiting.  While I feel that the SR-009 is great, in some ways its like my HD-800/T-1, too analytical sometimes, not very forgiving so I can't listen to oldies or most pop music.
 
FWIW I heard the Abyss, HE1K, LCD-X, K812, K-1000, SR-007, Edition 10 & 12, GS-1000, and a few other summit fi headphones, amps and DACs.  The only items which I would actually try to obtain are: LCD-X and SR-007, Liquid Glass, Mhdt Pagoda, WES or second SRM-007.

 

[obobskivich]

I would agree with the reasoning that the "new wave" of ever-more-expensive headphones have largely priced themselves out of many peoples' game. I think part of the original appeal of high end headphones for many people was that you could (and let's be honest, still can) get absolutely fantastic sound for under $500 all-in, and in many cases for less than that, plugged right into your mp3 player or smartphone. Moving into the $10,000+ system category really kicks out the vast majority of potential customers so you don't have as many people able to participate. This isn't the first time we've had silly expensive cans though, and older era "mega bucks" cans are equally unknown/obscure in the grand scheme of things (e.g. how often do you see people talking about Edition 7, ATH-L3000, Qualia, PS-1, SR-Omega, and the like?). Cans like the HD 650 and DT880 are popular not only because they perform well, but because they're priced at a level that makes them attainable for many people.

Now as far as the "worth it" question - that's impossible to answer for all people. I think, at the risk of creating a straw man, the "average person" probably doesn't consider any of the gear mentioned in this thread "worth it" (even the HD 518 are "very expensive" in many contexts), and said average person is probably quite happy with their pack-in earbuds or whatever else. As far as the second part of the question, with "where are things going" - I think the current round of mega-bucks gear has a very different "feel" to it as opposed to the previous halo offerings, mostly in that a lot of it is (at least ostensibly) here to stay, as opposed to being some limited edition promotional thing. Something that I've wondered about with regards to that is if we haven't seen price inflation due to the acceptance of mediocrity at formerly "high end" prices - a few years ago $300-400 was generally into top-tier territory, and then Beats came out and $299 got you a really miserable sounding pair of cans with slick celebrity promotion (that probably would've cost $10-30 at a department store a few years prior, and in fact I can say this with certainty - anyone else remember Skullcandy?), and everything changed. So now there's the "$500 is diminishing returns territory" line but also the "$500 is just getting out of the junk section" line. I'm not sure how you would even go about testing the veracity of this phenomenon, but like I said, it's something I've wondered about, and it does seem like the general "upward motion" of pricing occurred around the same time as Beats started to get seriously popular (and it may really just be a coincidence, I don't know).

 

[DavidA]

Now as far as the "worth it" question - that's impossible to answer for all people. I think, at the risk of creating a straw man, the "average person" probably doesn't consider any of the gear mentioned in this thread "worth it" (even the HD 518 are "very expensive" in many contexts), and said average person is probably quite happy with their pack-in earbuds or whatever else. As far as the second part of the question, with "where are things going" - I think the current round of mega-bucks gear has a very different "feel" to it as opposed to the previous halo offerings, mostly in that a lot of it is (at least ostensibly) here to stay, as opposed to being some limited edition promotional thing. Something that I've wondered about with regards to that is if we haven't seen price inflation due to the acceptance of mediocrity at formerly "high end" prices - a few years ago $300-400 was generally into top-tier territory, and then Beats came out and $299 got you a really miserable sounding pair of cans with slick celebrity promotion (that probably would've cost $10-30 at a department store a few years prior, and in fact I can say this with certainty - anyone else remember Skullcandy?), and everything changed. So now there's the "$500 is diminishing returns territory" line but also the "$500 is just getting out of the junk section" line. I'm not sure how you would even go about testing the veracity of this phenomenon, but like I said, it's something I've wondered about, and it does seem like the general "upward motion" of pricing occurred around the same time as Beats started to get seriously popular (and it may really just be a coincidence, I don't know).

Your comments on the Beats issue is spot on to me, another that headphone that I think is changing things in the EL8, being sold in Apple store, way more exposure for $700 headphones that I don't think are really there, $3-400 tops but like many Apple fans it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[moriez]

Hyper-Expensive Summit Fi Offerings Worthy of Cost?
 
Depends on who you ask which in turn depends on the guy's pockets. I really think it's as simple as that.