[jmkays]

(1) Which of these two amps has the edge in overall performance, and how significant is that edge?

(2) Which amp would yield the best fidelity from a 6th generation iPod and Shure SE530 IEM's?

(3) Which amp would yield the best fidelity from a pair of Sennheiser HD650's?

Thanks in advance for your time and wisdom.

 

[qusp]

well if you are willing to go to the size of the ultra micro amp then lisa III is actually better than both of them IMO it sits proudly at the top of both major amp threads and rightly so. IMO there is no other amp that comes close. its a little larger than Iqube, but about the same size as the HRUMA maybe slightly larger. but if SQ is your major concern and not portability then I doint see any other choice really. out of those though I would go the headroom.

 

[qusp]

god damn double post outage

 

[qusp]

damn triple post that outage played havock

 

[jmkays]

Qusp, thanks! Question: I see a few threads charting Lisa III development and availability and located the mfr page through a Google search, but do not see that it "sits at the top of both major amp threads". Please provide me the link to each thread. I must be looking in the wrong place. Thanks

Lastly, I've never heard of an impedance adapter for headphones. Can you give me a link for a suitable adapter for the SE530s? Again, many thanks for introducing me to the Lisa!

 

[qusp]

OK the major amp review threads are by Skylab and actually I cant find the other one, but this one here ^^ is the most extensive anyway. the impedance adapter is only needed with some amps with SE530, most will be fine, but because the lisa III is very powerful it can present a small amount of hiss when there is no music playing. you can find the adapters on ebay, just look for ety P to S adapter but most of them are pretty budget offerings, I would recommend getting one from a builder here on head-fi if you want a really nice one.

the lisa III has been at the top of that list pretty much since it was released despite it being a bit on the large side.

 

[jmkays]

It looks like a nice product. I'm thinking the HR Ultra Micro amp + DAC will give me more flexibility and comparable sonics for an additional $200.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkays /img/forum/go_quote.gif It looks like a nice product. I'm thinking the HR Ultra Micro amp + DAC will give me more flexibility and comparable sonics for an additional $200.

do you plan to use te dac portable?? ie with a laptop?? otherwise what gain are you getting from having a portable dac??because if not you would be much better served getting a home dac to use with the lisa III. or you could pair the lisa III with the dac. the HRMA only uses OPA627 opamps. they are pretty good, but far from the last word in opamps... far far. this amp is also getting on in design too. released in early 2007 I believe. not that that means too much. but the fact that its on special says something to me. the fact it doesnt use any caps in the signal path is interesting, but only if that means it outperforms the lisa.... which it doesnt according to anyone I've spokenb with that has heard both.

 

[jmkays]

Qusp, you make some good points, particularly concerning the home DAC. Question: what about some of the criticism on the Lisa threads concerning component quality? Some have been critical of the electronics as common fare (one post felt the Grace M902 had far superior internal electronics; I realize the Grace isn't a portable, but the Lisa is only quasi-portable). What's your response to that observation? Misplaced or some truth there?

 

[evilking]

I've heard both (UK meet) and I'm sorry, the ultra micro outperforms the lisa, no question. Sure the lisa 3 is the best portable amp ever. As a home amp though, it's just good. The HR ultra micro with Astrodyne power supply is really something special, and I wouldn't dismiss it as inferior or outdated (2007 is outdated? qusp better throw half of his sig away) until you've heard it.

Easiest way to decide this is to get yourself to a meet. Check the calendar, I'm sure there's one near you sometime soon.



EK

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilking /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've heard both (UK meet) and I'm sorry, the ultra micro outperforms the lisa, no question. Sure the lisa 3 is the best portable amp ever. As a home amp though, it's just good. The HR ultra micro with Astrodyne power supply is really something special, and I wouldn't dismiss it as inferior or outdated (2007 is outdated? qusp better throw half of his sig away) until you've heard it. Easiest way to decide this is to get yourself to a meet. Check the calendar, I'm sure there's one near you sometime soon. EK

did you hear the lisa with LLP because that would be the only fair comparison between the HRUMA which again ISNT PORTABLE. all these people that preface some statement about lisa or whatever product as being a great portable (lisa is unsurpassed portable IMO which IS however what we are talking about here). and then say that it was beaten by a home amp.... what kind of silly comparison is that??? the lisa III if biased into full home operation would also handily beat the portable lisa. and I quote myself here as you seem to have not read my post
Quote:

. this amp is also getting on in design too. released in early 2007 I believe. not that that means too much. but the fact that its on special says something to me.

this last bit is more mentioned because its possible that they are about to release a replacement, and if you are going all out, imagine how pissed you'd be if you did and it was superseded in a matter of months or even weeks. some equipment is just classic, and actually gets better with age. sure there is some gear thats getting on in age in my sig, but the HD25 have just been replaced, the SE530 are being RMA'd to IE8, I have no intention of replacing my RME fireface. the pico is getting less and less use, but its a 2008 amp anyway. and I dont consider speakers need to be replaced anywhere near as much as some other things. some things are difficult to improve on, so why replace them. but portable amps is an area that is absolutely marching forward.

Quote:

Qusp, you make some good points, particularly concerning the home DAC. Question: what about some of the criticism on the Lisa threads concerning component quality?

I dont have any problem with it at all, for the price, it compares to amps costing considerably more. like I sai the OPA627 opamp is pretty everyday fair and if you ared going to talk about not so great components, this would definately be one of them. it can be fpound in many of the entry level amps and actually in some CMOYs.

Quote:

Some have been critical of the electronics as common fare (one post felt the Grace M902 had far superior internal electronics

whoever made that comparison needs their head read. the grace is a dedicated home amp costing in excess of $1600USD; so probably yeah there are some better components in the grace; but so there should be at that price and thats on B&H, so is not anywhere near retail.

Quote:

I realize the Grace isn't a portable, but the Lisa is only quasi-portable). What's your response to that observation? Misplaced or some truth there?

why compare apples to oranges the lisa is IMO the best PORTABLE amp and can be outclassed even by its brethren, the upcoming portacode is all set to give considerably better performance in a larger size and price bracket. The lisa III is basically a home amp squeezed into a portable package, so of course some compromises had to be made in so far as the power rail, bias, etc. but for portable I dont see how it could've been done any better and it seems many agree. sure given 3 times the budget and with these limitations removed a better sounding package could be had, thats just the nature of portable and IMO the lisa makes far less in the way of compromise than any other portable amp i've had the pleasure of hearing. When a product such as lisa III is put out there as the best in its class, there will always be critics.

I do however agree that you should get to a meet and see if you can compare these 2 amps before making such a large outlay. they are both undoubtedly great choices, but obviously my bias is towards the lisa. I would hesitate before getting the ultra-micro dac. for home use. IMO get yourself a nice home dac instead. and choose one of these for portable amp. you know which one I would choose and did choose, but maybe you will prefer the other.

but one thing should be considered here; are you actually in the market for a portable amp?? or are you just getting caught up in the porta-fi craze?? Because good as both these products are, if you will not be using them portable, you could be better served by more appropriate hardware in source, amp and dac. its situations like these that lead to this bitching that goes on about portable not being worth the money. when people have unreasonable expectations of there gear and they buy gear that isnt suited to their usage, then they are bound to be disappointed when they hear something that is better suited. both of these amps perform admirably as portables but taken out of this zone, they are still good performers yes, but they are no-longer the best. am I correct in assuming you dont even have an IMOD?? you are using a stock ipod?? they do sound good when paired with a nice amp; no question, but as a source its nowhere near the potential of these amps. some would say that neither is the IMOD, but other than devices with digital out (which presents its own problems); I still think its the best in its class.

 

[evilking]

The confusion here is thread placement and original comparison. The thread is in portable amps yet the op is comparing a non-portable with a portable. For you to assume the op definately wants a portable is little weird, as the first post would make no sense.

Then the op mentions a HR ultra micro AMP DAC combo, which is not portable and the Grace M902, which is also not portable. So maybe you should ask him exactly what he wants before giving biased suggestions of the lisa and impedance adapters.




EK

 

[jmkays]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilking /img/forum/go_quote.gif The confusion here is thread placement and original comparison. The thread is in portable amps yet the op is comparing a non-portable with a portable. EK

Thank you both for your thoughts.

Both the original question and the two portable amps identified -- "HR Ultra Micro Amp vs iQube" -- made placement in this forum appropriate. The HR Micro DAC wasn't mentioned in the original question, but its inclusion doesn't place the thread outside the forum's subject matter.

As with any good discussion, input prompts exploring options outside the fact set presented in the original query. The very introduction of the 7" x 3" x 1(.7)" Lisa III as an alternative necessarily shifted the discussion, if only momentarily, from portables to transportable units. I don't see a 7 inch piece of hardware as a hip-pocket solution, unless bib-overalls are a staple in one's wardrobe. By that standard, the Grace M902, at 8.5 x 1.7 x 8.25", could be considered transportable too. I imagine this is all relative to how one travels and how many sherpas are in his employ.

While the original scenario presented was a choice between the iQube and Head Room Ultra Micro, the fact that the Ultra DAC exists is relevant, regardless of whether that takes it and the (narrowly defined) question out of the realm of micro portables like the iQube. Even given two 4.5 x 3.5 x 1.5 Head Room micro units, together they still occupy space comparable to a Lisa III. The existence of the Micro DAC imbues the HR Ultra Micro Amp with greater inherent value.

I don't see a "Transportable Amp" forum, so it would seem the thread's original subject matter and evolution hasn't deviated from the relevance of its parent forum.

Quote:

Am I correct in assuming you dont even have an IMOD?? You are using a stock ipod?? They do sound good when paired with a nice amp; no question, but as a source its nowhere near the potential of these amps. Some would say that neither is the IMOD, but other than devices with digital out (which presents its own problems); I still think its the best in its class. Qusp

Yes, sadly, I am presently IMODless. I am told it is a reversible condition, though, given the right treatment and attending professionals.

Who would you recommend for an IMOD?

I realize that the iPod, along with most portable WAV players out there, are low-fi. I have a Sound Devices professional (and portable!) rig that definitely is "hi-fi". I use the Sound Devices 722 HDD Recorder paired with the Sound Devices 442 Deluxe Field Mixer. I also planned on using the portable headphone amp with my laptop computer and my watercooled X58 desktop platform and RME HDSP 9632 I/O card.

I realize having a rack mounted DAC and headphone amp offer the best sound quality, but if there isn't a huge concession in fidelity, my preference would be to have a portable or transportable unit that I could use on the road with my SE530s, as well as at home. Most of my listening is through Magnepan 3.6 speakers and Dynaudio studio monitors. That will never change. I use headphones only when I'm on the road or people are sleeping.

It seems like the HR Ultra paired with the micro DAC is the best (truly) portable solution out there right now. I'm leaning in that direction with the Decware CSP2/Sennheiser HD800 as a home solution hooked up to my Audio Research pre, given some of the limitations you've pointed out, Qusp, and limit use of the HeadRoom to home office and travel.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilking /img/forum/go_quote.gif The confusion here is thread placement and original comparison. The thread is in portable amps yet the op is comparing a non-portable with a portable. For you to assume the op definately wants a portable is little weird, as the first post would make no sense. Then the op mentions a HR ultra micro AMP DAC combo, which is not portable and the Grace M902, which is also not portable. So maybe you should ask him exactly what he wants before giving biased suggestions of the lisa and impedance adapters. EK

LOL I think it is you that are making assumptions man. I have suggested transportable options because that was within the OP guidelines, but if you actually read my posts, which it seems you have trouble doing. I questioned whether he indeed needed or wanted a portable solution. I also stated that if he did not in fact need/want a portable solution then he would be better off getting a home solution for one or the other or both, because they perform better. I think it is funny that you mention my bias towards the lisa as a solution... how hypocritical can you be??? you have only stuck with one manufacturer where as I have suggested combined solutions to this issue while admitting that the HRUMA is probably very good and would be a good solution. I only recommend the lisa because I have experience of it as I own one and I am not alone in thinking it is the best sounding portable amp (even you concede this) so if the OP needs a portable amp and sound quality is above size constraints then I see no other worthy suggestion given my knowledge and experience. the impedance adapter is only suggested as a byp[roduct of wanting to be able to power IEMs and fullsize cans to their highest potential. I dont care where he gets it its just a solution.

To the OP

I think you have made the right choice. funny we have some similar gear I too have a RME9632 (balanced breakout option) as well as an RME fireface 400 when at home I use the lisa to drive my woodied MD2000 (jena re-cabled) from the master bus out on the fireface and also sometimes as a pre for my active KRK studio monitors (mainly driven balanced out of the fireface though) I am a audio production hobbyist and use logic pro on my mac. I assume from your gear list that you are an audio professional?? i'm sure the headroom gear will do nicely, IMO there are better combinations for the money, but i'm sure you will be happy with that solution.

 

[jmkays]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you have made the right choice. funny we have some similar gear I too have a RME9632 (balanced breakout option) as well as an RME fireface 400 when at home I use the lisa to drive my woodied MD2000 (jena re-cabled) from the master bus out on the fireface and also sometimes as a pre for my active KRK studio monitors (mainly driven balanced out of the fireface though) I am a audio production hobbyist and use logic pro on my mac. I assume from your gear list that you are an audio professional?? i'm sure the headroom gear will do nicely, IMO there are better combinations for the money, but i'm sure you will be happy with that solution.

Sweet! Yes, I use the balanced breakout cables too and favor tube mics (Brauner); although I've used DPAs and Royers and have been pleased with their performance, as well.

To answer your question, no, I'm not an audio pro. I play jazz trumpet and use the gear to help in refining my technique and to record musician friends. Guess now I'm officially WAY off topic, but it's all in good fun and I've learned from listening to you two do the Capulet-Montague two-step. I didn't mean to incite fisticuffs, gents. You both have helped me and I appreciate your time and wisdom.

Guess now I just have to search the forums for a good iPod mod solution, unless you have some suggestions, my friend.