[baskingshark]

Hi sorry to ask this noob question as above, as I don't own any TOTL stuff > 500 USD. I'm definitely interested in investing in a TOTL IEM one of these days, currently saving money for it. I'm wondering where is the best price to performance ratio, as I tell myself there must be an endpoint, if not it will be a neverending chase down this rabbit hole.

I found that the jump in sound quality between budgetFI and midFI gear isn't that large as the price point would suggest.
Just as an example, from my humble collection, I found that the KZ ZS10 Pro can give me about 80 - 90% of the details/soundstage/clarity/instrument separation/timbre of the Westone W30. And it is almost 10 times cheaper.
I know this 80 - 90% figure is purely subjective and cannot be objectively recorded, but it is a ballpark figure after I did A/B of these 2 IEMs with some tracks that I am familiar with, using same source/cables etc. And of course CHIFI products are generally cheaper than western brands in the past few years, so maybe it is not a 100% accurate comparison.

But I am wondering how far is the jump between midfi to TOTL IEMs? Does the law of diminishing returns justify paying a few hundred more for a small incremental improvement? Definitely everyone has their own opinion on how to spend their cash, and music and gear is subjective, but for those that own TOTL stuff, any input will be greatly appreciated.

TIA!!!

 

[redrol]

Yes to all of that. There are, however, special lower priced IEMs that DO rate with the expensive ones. Everyone has their 'giant killers' that they think rate up with the best and most expensive stuff.

I personally am of the opinion that audio has no best, only what works best for you. All relative.

I see you own the MH755. That IEM in particular IS the price/performance champ of all time. What a value. Thing sounds better than some $$$ sets.

Some people think that really defined treble is what makes a TOTL. Some like an open soundstage. etc, etc. My background is more from the mixing / producing side of things so I like audio that sounds 'correct' when compared to a studio with high end monitors.

I think you will find that most folks that pay a lot for an IEM will justify the spent money regardless. It is what it is.

 

[kdphan]

everyone's ears hears differently
There really isn't a "best" but there could be a "best for you", in my opinion.

There are some IEMs in the $300-$500 range that I enjoy very much. And then there are some in the $3k range that are great as well.

There is diminishing returns as you go above let's say $1k.

 

[redrol]

I tend to ask folks if they thought their outlay of money was worth the IEM enjoyment. To me that is the final metric. For example if you ask me if I thought the Moondrop A8 was worth $666 bux, my answer would be an emphatic 'yes'. Do I think the XBA Z5 is worth the going rate of $400, YES! Was it worth the new retail price of $700.. probably not. I got the Fiio FH7 for $475 bux (preorder). That IEM was absolutely not worth that amount of money to me. I would have kept it for about $150.

 

[SilverEars]

I tend to ask folks if they thought their outlay of money was worth the IEM enjoyment. To me that is the final metric. For example if you ask me if I thought the Moondrop A8 was worth $666 bux, my answer would be an emphatic 'yes'. Do I think the XBA Z5 is worth the going rate of $400, YES! Was it worth the new retail price of $700.. probably not. I got the Fiio FH7 for $475 bux (preorder). That IEM was absolutely not worth that amount of money to me. I would have kept it for about $150.

I thought Z5 was ok, not great. EX1000 was good, but it's hyped. It's not like it should up there like technicality really that high or anything.

Anyway, opinions are all over the place, and I would not say any of the $2k iems are worth $2k or anywhere close. As long as there are people shilling or endorsing, writing fake reviews, there will be much overpriced stuff will pop up (same goes for Chifi crap, too many as we need better reviewers). But, will we be so gullable if quality of low priced offering get better?

Moondrop has been a brand with their mid priced offering that has been hitting it right IMO. Hopefully, Chifi bring better quality and value as Moondrop has already demonstrated.

 

[baskingshark]

Yes to all of that. There are, however, special lower priced IEMs that DO rate with the expensive ones. Everyone has their 'giant killers' that they think rate up with the best and most expensive stuff.

I personally am of the opinion that audio has no best, only what works best for you. All relative.

I see you own the MH755. That IEM in particular IS the price/performance champ of all time. What a value. Thing sounds better than some $$$ sets.

Some people think that really defined treble is what makes a TOTL. Some like an open soundstage. etc, etc. My background is more from the mixing / producing side of things so I like audio that sounds 'correct' when compared to a studio with high end monitors.

I think you will find that most folks that pay a lot for an IEM will justify the spent money regardless. It is what it is.

Yeah I like the MH755. In fact, my family ask me why do I still use it when there are more expensive gear that I have lying around. If only they made a longer detachable cable, i think that would be a serious giant killer.

I thought Z5 was ok, not great. EX1000 was good, but it's hyped. It's not like it should up there like technicality really that high or anything.

Anyway, opinions are all over the place, and I would not say any of the $2k iems are worth $2k or anywhere close. As long as there are people shilling or endorsing, writing fake reviews, there will be much overpriced stuff will pop up (same goes for Chifi crap, too many as we need better reviewers). But, will we be so gullable if quality of low priced offering get better?

Moondrop has been a brand with their mid priced offering that has been hitting it right IMO. Hopefully, Chifi bring better quality and value as Moondrop has already demonstrated.

Moondrop seems to tune their stuff very well even though they are single driver IEMs mostly, look forward to more of their releases.
Yeah I gotta thank CHIFI for really giving us good prices for a small taste of audiophile quality. Just 3 - 4 years back, there was no way we were gonna get multi driver IEMs for less than 50 bucks lol. More competition is good for us consumers, so I hope the western companies see this and don't rest on their laurels and continue charging exorbitant prices.

everyone's ears hears differently
There really isn't a "best" but there could be a "best for you", in my opinion.

There are some IEMs in the $300-$500 range that I enjoy very much. And then there are some in the $3k range that are great as well.

There is diminishing returns as you go above let's say $1k.

Yeah I think $1K seems to be a good ballpark figure to consider.

 

[Ra97oR]

There are quite a few IEM I can live with at the lower price point, EX800ST, Periodic Audio Be, Shozy Zero, Final E3000, etc.

Without listening to my higher end stuff for a long time, they can sounds pretty darn good too. But once I put on my FitEar MH334SR, it kinda reminds me why I still got these IEMs after all these years.

Ignorance is bliss if you are happy with what you got!

 

[redrol]

I kinda agree with the $1000 bux price point as being the crossover point for extremely diminishing returns.

 

[issuzark]

Moondrop seems to tune their stuff very well even though they are single driver IEMs mostly, look forward to more of their releases.
Yeah I gotta thank CHIFI for really giving us good prices for a small taste of audiophile quality. Just 3 - 4 years back, there was no way we were gonna get multi driver IEMs for less than 50 bucks lol. More competition is good for us consumers, so I hope the western companies see this and don't rest on their laurels and continue charging exorbitant prices.

While I agree with your statement for the most part, I don't think the number of drivers counts much when it comes to sound quality. I can still think of quite a number of IEMs that has lower number of drivers that sound a lot better than KZ10 or KZ16. (prices may be a lot higher though)

 

[baskingshark]

While I agree with your statement for the most part, I don't think the number of drivers counts much when it comes to sound quality. I can still think of quite a number of IEMs that has lower number of drivers that sound a lot better than KZ10 or KZ16. (prices may be a lot higher though)

Definitely agree tuning matters more than driver count. That was my point about the moondrops being good, and mostly single DD iems.
But compared to three years ago, for an equivalent western brand multi driver/hybrid with same specs, nowadays we are blessed to get CHIFI ones for sub 50 bucks compared to 200 - 300 usd previously.

 

[pstickne]

Yeah I like the MH755. In fact, my family ask me why do I still use it when there are more expensive gear that I have lying around. If only they made a longer detachable cable, i think that would be a serious giant killer.





Moondrop seems to tune their stuff very well even though they are single driver IEMs mostly, look forward to more of their releases.
Yeah I gotta thank CHIFI for really giving us good prices for a small taste of audiophile quality. Just 3 - 4 years back, there was no way we were gonna get multi driver IEMs for less than 50 bucks lol. More competition is good for us consumers, so I hope the western companies see this and don't rest on their laurels and continue charging exorbitant prices.




Yeah I think $1K seems to be a good ballpark figure to consider.

MH755 also has a very simple casing. I like semi fitted over ear much more. Not bad, and very cost effective.. still, would take more than a longer cable (some mod to detachable or whatnot), even if the sound was the best.

HOWEVER, there are better transducers available .. just generally not as good value/dollar, if that is the ONLY metric. MH755 gets so much love particularly because it shows what can be done for very cheap - not that it’s a pinnacle of great.

 

[pstickne]

Hi sorry to ask this noob question as above, as I don't own any TOTL stuff > 500 USD. I'm definitely interested in investing in a TOTL IEM one of these days, currently saving money for it. I'm wondering where is the best price to performance ratio, as I tell myself there must be an endpoint, if not it will be a neverending chase down this rabbit hole.

I found that the jump in sound quality between budgetFI and midFI gear isn't that large as the price point would suggest.
Just as an example, from my humble collection, I found that the KZ ZS10 Pro can give me about 80 - 90% of the details/soundstage/clarity/instrument separation/timbre of the Westone W30. And it is almost 10 times cheaper.
I know this 80 - 90% figure is purely subjective and cannot be objectively recorded, but it is a ballpark figure after I did A/B of these 2 IEMs with some tracks that I am familiar with, using same source/cables etc. And of course CHIFI products are generally cheaper than western brands in the past few years, so maybe it is not a 100% accurate comparison.

But I am wondering how far is the jump between midfi to TOTL IEMs? Does the law of diminishing returns justify paying a few hundred more for a small incremental improvement? Definitely everyone has their own opinion on how to spend their cash, and music and gear is subjective, but for those that own TOTL stuff, any input will be greatly appreciated.

TIA!!!

I now view IEMs like jewelry. In the case of $$$ it is mostly markup paid to the vendor for prestige and fancy advertising / packaging. The prices for “TOTL” are far above any component or manufacturing costs.

This isn’t to say $$$ doesn’t / can’t “sound better” than a $/$$ IEM - rather, there is not a good reason to believe a significantly more expensive IEM will be an ‘upgrade’. (Viewing something as a higher status, including a higher cost, can falsely bias impressions. Get a few rave reviews off and..)

Also, market seems to chase itself - one can’t ALWAYS make a better product, so companies have to keep reinventing and selling new products however they can to compete and make money. Flavor (and sound signature) of the month.

 

[issuzark]

Definitely agree tuning matters more than driver count. That was my point about the moondrops being good, and mostly single DD iems.
But compared to three years ago, for an equivalent western brand multi driver/hybrid with same specs, nowadays we are blessed to get CHIFI ones for sub 50 bucks compared to 200 - 300 usd previously.

Yeah. Chifi definitely have a lot better value on paper. It helps that to the common man the number of drivers is like the number of pistons in an engine too

 

[SilentNote]

For IEMs, anything below $250 you are generally trading something for the lower price, be it uncontrolled bass, weaker vocals or screamy trebles. There are a few gems under this price that may be good enough, but when A/B'd they will show their weakness. Nothing wrong with that of course and nobody A/Bs before listening to their favorite music, so for all intent and purposes $250 is about the point most people are happy with.

My personal experience (this year) has shown that $500 starts becoming the price range where price and performance no longer really matters. It's all personal preference from this point onwards, whether or not the IEM suits your personal taste. The justification for jumping from $250 to $500 is really answering the question "will I be happy with these forever?". If you are looking for something with no flaws (personal) in sound, fits perfectly, built well, then it's difficult to meet all those criteria with IEMs under $250 and to a certain extent $500.

Also don't underestimate the performance of certain older models you can find for cheap used. Technology in sound reproduction don't move very quickly and classics will still sound excellent regardless of how time passes.

 

[issuzark]

For IEMs, anything below $250 you are generally trading something for the lower price, be it uncontrolled bass, weaker vocals or screamy trebles. There are a few gems under this price that may be good enough, but when A/B'd they will show their weakness. Nothing wrong with that of course and nobody A/Bs before listening to their favorite music, so for all intent and purposes $250 is about the point most people are happy with.

My personal experience (this year) has shown that $500 starts becoming the price range where price and performance no longer really matters. It's all personal preference from this point onwards, whether or not the IEM suits your personal taste. The justification for jumping from $250 to $500 is really answering the question "will I be happy with these forever?". If you are looking for something with no flaws (personal) in sound, fits perfectly, built well, then it's difficult to meet all those criteria with IEMs under $250 and to a certain extent $500.

Also don't underestimate the performance of certain older models you can find for cheap used. Technology in sound reproduction don't move very quickly and classics will still sound excellent regardless of how time passes.

You know, when I first started in 2011, I actually thought that the marginal improvement started to shrink after you pass the $100 mark, which is the IT01/SE215 area. These days I think the figure is abit higher though.