[montonen]

Some observations from spending quite a lot of $ tip-rolling.

My standard now is comparing my custom tips to universal tips. Observations on sound changes are in that context.

Wide bore is preferable to narrow bore for 4mm to 6mm nozzles. Perceived imaging went down consistently across brands as bore size went down.

Stem length is important to consider first for comfort, then for sound. Each IEM wants to sit differently in your ear, so the sealing portion of the tip will need different stem lengths to reach your optimal seating position. The general principle I arrived at is the size of the IEM is directly correlated to required stem length for optimal fit.
The sound adds perceived dimension as the stem gets longer as a general observation. This also depends on the material, so take with a grain of salt.

Texture of the material matters. If you are going to put your IEMs on and leave them in, sticky and heavily textured materials work well to secure your fit. If you are going to wear your IEMs out and about, every little bit of texture causes stress and eventually pain as you don & doff them throughout the day. As a rule of thumb, the slicker the material is, the thicker you want the material to be. Slick and thin tends to deform too readily and fail to seal properly.

My current GOAT universals are the Azla sednaearfit light long stem and the Divinius Velvet tips due to the factors above. The Azlas have the most universally applicable dimensions of all the tips I tried, they seal the best with the widest variety of IEMs (at least that I own), and they are just textured enough to be secure without tearing my ear canals up over time. They also sound the closest to my custom tips, so they even win in the sound department too. The Divinius get a nod because they are just as nice, but are less compatible due to a shorter stem.

Hope this helps.

Nice analysis. Thank you! I think I will be trying out Azla's in the future.

 

[fevers end]

Generally if u can hear the bass and subbass well, it means a good seal is achieved.

You should familiarise yourself with a couple of songs to know them inside out in terms of dynamics and details and what instrument/voice plays at a certain time and use this test track to see if anything is lacking whenever u try a new tip.

In general wide bore silicone tips lower the bass, whereas narrow bore silicone tips are the opposite. And in general foam tips lower treble. But as we all have different ear anatomies, we may experience different outcomes with different tips.

I really like your advice about getting to know a few songs really well. I often wonder how much I can trust one reviewer about a product without knowing if they have a set of songs that they always listen to when testing iems. It would really make no sense trying to listen for things that aren't existing in an poorly produced track.

 

[WILLJS]

I have the same problem with pretty much all IEMs - that's why I went with custom tips. Once that confirmed it for a relatively small price, I jumped onto customs.

There is no easy way out besides experimenting, nor a 'scientific' way of doing it considering your ears are different to everyone else's.

Forget it about returning tips - they're often in blister packs, so if you rip them open it's over.

If you know what to hear for with the occlusion effect, don't have to move around - it's just most obvious when you're moving around because you normally don't hear your footsteps that obviously.

where did you get custom tips from?

 

[gregorio]

I really like your advice about getting to know a few songs really well.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t necessarily help. Getting to know a few songs really well only helps if you get to know them on a “reference” system and that’s particularly problematic because almost no consumers have “reference” systems, despite what they may believe/claim. In other words, you get to know a few tracks “really well” but at least somewhat wrongly. So, if you then listen on a speaker setup or HPs/IEMs that are actually “right” (or closer to being “correct”) they will sound “wrong” because they’re not what you incorrectly believe to be “right”. I’ve had quite a few audiophiles in my (or other) very well treated studios over the course of several decades and without exception they’ve always been surprised, even more so when playing their own selections of recordings which they know exceedingly well.

I often wonder how much I can trust one reviewer about a product without knowing if they have a set of songs that they always listen to when testing iems.

As a rule of thumb, the answer is “not at all!”. Not knowing if they have a set of songs they always use or if they have any idea what those songs should sound like (on a reference system) is a good reason not to trust them but unfortunately just one of many good reasons. Another is that they typically have a good or very good knowledge of audiophile terminology and beliefs but have a relatively very poor knowledge/understanding of how audio, sound and/or the human perception of it works. Yet another is the incentive/s to provide favourable reviews.

It would really make no sense trying to listen for things that aren't existing in a poorly produced track.

You’re right, it “really makes no sense trying to listen to things that aren’t existing”, yet that is EXACTLY what audiophile reviewers do AND, they do that almost all the time! Just look at all the reviews of DAC, Amps, cables, network switches and numerous other audiophile products that make either no difference at all to the output sound or differences well outside human audibility limits and not only are they “trying to listen for” them but they (falsely) claim they can actually hear them, sometimes even to the point that they’re “night and day differences”!

Of course many audiophiles do trust reviewers, at least some of them somewhat, but that’s because they are subject to the same incorrect audiophile beliefs and the same (or even worse) ignorance of how audio, sound and human perception works.

G

 

[Redcarmoose]

This thread was a way too myopic in areas. Tips are one of the easiest things to get down once you understand the two variables.

IEM fit from tip shape
Sound from the tip shape

The length and diameter of the tip effects the IEMs relationship to fit.

The overall shape and materials the tip is made from affect sound.

I use the same tip for 90% of my reviews and picture it often.

 

[bigshot]

There's no need to overcomplicate it. When you're introducing the sound halfway down the ear canal, you're bypassing a great deal of the intended sound- no room reflections to indicate distance, and no HRTF to make the sound completely natural to you as an individual. What this means is that the sound of IEMs is what it is. They don't have to match the sound of any real world model, because they never could no matter how hard you tried. So the goal should be just to achieve enjoyable sound and look for a fit where they are snug in the ear and don't fall out. No one can do this for you. You just have to use trial and error to get to a place you like. When you get there, stop fussing with it and listen to music.

 

[Ryokan]

A tip that gives a good fit doesn't necessarily give good sound. Materials as mentioned make a difference. Thick sticky plastic tips that mould to your ear stay put but negatively affect the highs I've found. Each tip brings subtle differences.

 

[bigshot]

It's going to vary so much from person to person, I don't know how you can generalize about what is good and what isn't.

 

[castleofargh]

In general the changes in sound from tips are:
Because the tip allows a different insertion depth.
Because the tip is of different length.
Because it doesn’t seal as well as another.

1 and 2 are about resonance. of the ear canal for 1 and of the ear canal and IEM’s tube for 2. Both creating a gain at some frequency, and a change in length shifts the frequency at which the gain exists. So the subjective impact can be quite significant.
3 is about the amount of low frequency we’ll get. Any loss of seal will look like a high pass filter has been applied.

That being said, if there is no comfort, who cares about the rest? Advice on tips rarely helped me. I just tried a bunch and once I found something that "worked" for me(good seal, no itchy scratchy feeling), I just used that. To the point of avoiding IEMs with large nozzles simply because it would mean using other tips. Comfort is 51% of the deal for me. For the FR, I can always EQ to my taste afterward(with the caveat that the IEM doesn’t already have some chaos near the frequencies of my obstructed ear canal resonance. Because then, even small insertion changes can be trouble).

 

[BrokeAudiophileMan]

As per title, how should I test if the tip is the best one for my ears? What tracks and testing methods I should use?

EDIT: I am asking here instead of the help forums as I will like a more systematic approach aside from the usual "try every tip until it sounds the best" approach as that didn't help me understand why some tips are worse than the other etc

My method is basically "Try all the tips that are in my possession and see what sounds best" while also making sure I have a good seal. The bass will mostly come with a good seal but the rest of the frequencies depend on the material, shape, size, and overall fit of the tip. If you have an IEM that makes it possible, you can also try different filters with different tips to try to get the ideal sound.

The thing with sound, at least in my opinion, is that it's totally subjective. So what if person B's setup "measures better" than yours? Does yours sound better to you--the primary user? Then that's all that ought to matter. There's never a "right" answer. With TV's, we can all agree that a $5000 OLED looks better than a $800 QLED--but with headphones, that $800 headphone might actually sound better to some people. That $200 amp might sound better to you than that $400 amp, etc etc. I've been blown away by some of the $100-150 headphones I've tried which IMO have beaten some of the $300-400 headphones I've tried. It's all subjective.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[gregorio]

The bass will mostly come with a good seal but the rest of the frequencies depend on the material, shape, size, and overall fit of the tip.

That very much depends on the IEM. A good seal will always tend to increase the bass, very significantly in most cases but that’s not a desirable/good thing with an IEM designed for tips that do not provide a good seal. There have been cases, even from the earliest days of audiophile IEMs, where audiophiles have replaced the tips provided with memory foam or other tips that provide a much better seal and then complaining the IEMs are weak in the mid or treble region.

The thing with sound, at least in my opinion, is that it's totally subjective.

Careful here, sound is completely objective, if sound were “totally subjective” we wouldn’t be able to record it (or therefore reproduce it). Our perception/response to sound is obviously subjective though. However, we still have to be careful of claiming “totally subjective”, if it were totally subjective there would never be a direct correlation between the objective sound and our perception of it and obviously there is, at least partially and sometimes very precisely.

G

 

[redrol]

There's no need to overcomplicate it. When you're introducing the sound halfway down the ear canal, you're bypassing a great deal of the intended sound- no room reflections to indicate distance, and no HRTF to make the sound completely natural to you as an individual. What this means is that the sound of IEMs is what it is. They don't have to match the sound of any real world model, because they never could no matter how hard you tried. So the goal should be just to achieve enjoyable sound and look for a fit where they are snug in the ear and don't fall out. No one can do this for you. You just have to use trial and error to get to a place you like. When you get there, stop fussing with it and listen to music.

I can get close. Been tuning one driver for near 2 years now. Referencing actual speakers the whole time.

 

[KinGensai]

@gregorio I'm curious about your opinion on whether occlusion in a tip's stem has any appreciable effect. I see some companies using longer nozzles claiming an effect akin to french horns, and I figure that may apply to tips too if that rationale is sound.

 

[gregorio]

@gregorio I'm curious about your opinion on whether occlusion in a tip's stem has any appreciable effect. I see some companies using longer nozzles claiming an effect akin to french horns, and I figure that may apply to tips too if that rationale is sound.

To be honest, I don’t know. Certainly the occlusion effect is a real phenomenon but whether you’re going to experience it and how much it’s going to bother you will be a function of your personal ear canal shape, your personal perception and your particular IEMs. I’m not sure if the rational of companies’ claims is correct and even if it is, how much difference it would make to you personally. Although as a general rule, I tend to take companies‘ claims, especially those marketing to audiophiles, with a pinch of salt until there’s reliable supporting evidence.

Sorry I can’t be of more help, maybe someone else here is more familiar with the issue?

G

 

[Ryokan]

How to test for the correct iem tips? - Try everything you can get hold of. If a certain shape/material doesn't work for one iem it might for another. There are no hard and fast rules, as I see it.