How To Make The HD650's to Sound More Like HD600's/RS-1's?

[Gradofan2]

I like the bass/mids of the HD650's, but want them to be faster / sharper, and their upper mids & highs to be much brighter (more high frequency emphasis).

What are the best ways to achieve a sound that sounds more like the HD600's, or RS-1's, but retains some of their bass and mids... just faster / sharper - if that sound can be achieved???

I've already learned that upgrading the cable to the Zu, or SD, is likely necessary... and likely in the balanced form.

OK... now what amp is required that has both single-ended and balanced outputs - that doesn't cost more than $1500 - the less expensive the better.

I'm guessing a PPX3 Slam, or MPX3 Slam, configured with balanced outputs and the right tubes is likely necessary (I've already seen the other thread on "which tubes" for the HD650)?

But... are there any others, that aren't too sterile, cold and analytical (typical of SS)? Or... perhaps that's not an issue with the HD650's, since they're so warm?

Or... is it possible? Perhaps... making the HD650's sound more like the HD600's, or RS-1's... just isn't possible - I've seen a lot of you have stayed with the HD600's (maybe for that reason)??? I sorta suspect it's not possible... but, some of you have already been down this road and know for sure.

Or... maybe it's easier to improve the bass / mids of the HD600's with the cable / amp?

Or... maybe the GS1000, or some other <$1000 phones, have the combo sound of the HD650's/HD600's/RS-1's???

I realize that these answers are probably buried in some combination of 100+ different threads/posts - but, I haven't been able to find them all and consolidate them all into one summary.

 

[leng jai]

Try EQ'ing it in...

*runs*

 

[Jahvetti]

GS1000 does not sound like a combination of those headphones. Also I don't see any way to make HD650 to sound like RS-1. They are that different.

 

[slwiser]

Make a trade with someone. That is how it can be done or sell and buy what you want.

 

[Kees]

Looks like I'm after the same as you are.
I am now driving my 650s balanced from my preamp with balanced stock cable. I am pretty shure it makes the difference I am looking for, but the preamp is not idealy suited to drive them (150 ohm/6volt is barely enough and I am lucky the 650s are high impedance).
So I have been looking for an alternative. I am now planning (if and when finances permit) to go for the Rudistor NX-33. I also looked into balanced Dinamight and GS-X and ballanced Headroom etc., but that is WAY too expensive for me. I also think I will go with balanced Zu. I tried the (SE) Equinox and was not impressed at all. I guess the Silver Dragon should do just as well, but I just like the looks of the Zu better (....

.....).
It is sort of reassuring you (and some other people) where independently thinking in similar lines as I did. Maybe the NX-33 is an option for you? ($1200 I think). StevieDVD just got one and seems very happy with it and his balanced 650s.

 

[leonid05]

Not necessary to go for balanced amps or expensive cables.

Could always try the Rudistor-hybrid RP5.1 to get what you`re looking for.
"Bright" tubes with very tight and controlled bass together with very bright and detailled heights are doing the trick.
After months of tube-rolling I found the NOS-Philips-JAN-tubes to be most excellent in that regard.

Such the HD650 sounds excellent-
wouldn`t know how it could sound better.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonid05 Not necessary to go for balanced amps or expensive cables. Could always try the Rudistor-hybrid RP5.1 to get what you`re looking for. "Bright" tubes with very tight and controlled bass together with very bright and detailled heights are doing the trick. After months of tube-rolling I found the NOS-Philips-JAN-tubes to be most excellent in that regard. Such the HD650 sounds excellent- wouldn`t know how it could sound better.

I have an X-can v3 with Pinky mods and several different tubes. The 650s sound realy very good when plugged in this amp. I mean VERY good.
I haven't heard the RP5.1, but I have looked at it and read about it (Patu has/had one) and I have the impression that it must be rather similar in a lot of respects to the modded X-can v3.
I did the balancing act on the stock cable with my preamp and heard a difference in dynamics and in detail that made the senns come much more alive than I had known before. That is why I am now considering this move.
I have also tried other SE solutions: Black Cube Linear for instance and Amity HPA4S: not even close (in my ears) to the X-can. I have been tempted by the recent rave about the HEED. If PinkFloyd thinks it is so much better than even his own X-can.... A HeadFi life is not easy.

 

[Patu]

I indeed had RP5.1 for almost a year. I have never heard HD650 sounding as good as it did with RP5.1. The Aria which I now have doesn't do as good job, not even near. RP5.1 brightens up the sound of HD650 and makes the bass tighter and faster. For me the best tubes were NOS Amperex White Label.

I haven't heard HD650 with X-Can V3. I've only heard it briefly with Grado SR80 and that combination didn't impress me at all. It might be because of the headphones though (I would believe so).

I would also go for an aftermarket cable and defoam them. Defoaming doesn't cost you a thing so I that's the first thing I would give a try.

 

[Gradofan2]

Duplicate... "flippin" post!

 

[Gradofan2]

The XCAN v3 is an outstanding amp with both the Grados and Senns, especially with the PinkFloyd mods. It sounds great with my RS-1's and my HD600's/Cardas. And the HD650's sound good with it - it's just that the HD650's still are too dark with it.

And... removing the foam does help... but, just not enough.

And... the JAN Phillips 6922's do help... but, just not enough.

And... my guess is the RP5.1 (being a hybrid) sounds very similar to the XCAN v3 with them - very good... but, just not enough.

And... I've consistently avoided EQ's, because I'm concerned they may degrade the SQ, and introduce distortion... plus, the good ones "cost an arm and a leg."

I guess... I'm really asking... will a balanced amp/cables take them there... and... if so, which ones?

 

[mulveling]

Huh, actually I find the HD650 to be faster than the HD600 and RS1. They certainly are significantly darker though, especially before burn in (< 350 hrs) and with the stock cable. Cables/amps won't get them to the RS1/HD600 balance, but you can reach the middle ground - which is IMO much more neutral & natural anyways. You'll also need to give them some good listening time to let your ears adjust. I missed the airiness of the HD600 several month after I got the HD650, but I adjusted and these days I can't go back to brighter headphones.

The Zu Mobius and Moon Audio Silver Dragon are the two cables you've got to look at. They'll pull the HD650 in the direction you desire along with increased detail and dynamics. Geez, I haven't spent time with the Senns in a while but I guess if it was my money I'd buy a nice Singlepower amp, MPX3 class or higher (highest base model I could afford; Supra would be ideal). I don't know about high impedance cans but I know the SLAM adaptors have pulled miracles for all my low impedance headphones in terms of dynamics, speed, and tightening up the bass. Worth looking into. For balanced amps I've only heard a Blue Dragon'd HD650 from the XLR outs of a benchmark DAC1 and balanced R10s from an SDS-XLR (not anything middle ground). Based on those experiences I'd go for the best single-ended amp within budget, until I could afford an uber balanced amp like the SDS-XLR, though obviously my experience is lacking there.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 I guess... I'm really asking... will a balanced amp/cables take them there... and... if so, which ones?

The only balanced amp under $1500 that I am aware of is the NX-33.....

Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[kramer5150]

de-foam mod
socket mod the foam sheet

better yet... just get an HD600 and an RS1

 

[OakIris]

I have to agree with slwiser. Since, according to your signature, you already have a pair of HD600s and the RS-1s as well, why even bother with the HD650 if you don't like their sound? Why try to make them sound like headphones you already have?

You seem to want to just throw more money at them - different cables, different amp, different tubes - with no guarantee that they willl sound any better to your ears. Sell them or trade them for a headphone whose signature sound you prefer right out of the box, or keep the sale money to save up for an amp upgrade that will "please" your HD600s and RS1s, whose sound you already like.

Holly

 

[russdog]

Hey Gradofan2... back when I first came here, I was asking about choices for cable upgrades for my HD600's... you were nice enough to give some thoughtful replies (before you zoomed off into Grado propaganda

Your bottom line advice to me: "Don't waste your time and money trying to make your Senn's into something they will never be." Might this be exactly what you're doing? (I dunno. 'Just asking, that's all.)