[crewxp]

Whenever I hook the speaker wiring from the receiver to my amp, the volume is extremely low when I play audio and the receiver constantly shuts off and says 'protection on'. I used a L/R RCA Cable and stripped the headphone part off to try to hook in the receiver. Is it my wiring or where I'm trying to plug into?
 
Do I use Front L/R or High/ Bi-Amp Front L/R?
The Ceiling Speakers were installed without specs given to me after they were installed. So it's hard to figure out how to wire them. There's about 8 speakers in total in the room
But when I hook my amp's headphone jack to my amp directly (instead of using speaker wire), everything works fine. But I feel this is just ignoring the issue. I want to create a permanent solution and make it not have a random wire sticking out the front.
Can someone tell me what's probably happening? The ideal setup is to use all 8 speakers for maximum audio coverage, all in stereo.
 
Here is my setup (In Order):
Sony STR DN840 Receiver (Bluetooth/Pandora Audio Hosting)
Atlas CP400 Amp
Episode ESS-6-BLK Speaker Selector (Left,Right,Ground,Ground going to Amp. 4 Wires)
Unknown Speakers installed. (16 wires going to selector, 8 speakers) [outdoor 70V/100V Speakers)
 
My failed Attempt's Setup:
I tried hooking the amp's L/R RCA Jack input slot to my receiver. I did this by stripping a RCA to Headphone Cable and plugging the L/R stripped part in the 'Front L/R' slots on the receiver. I didn't use the High Front or Bi/Amp Front L/R. Then I attached a ground wire to the two ground terminals since the RCA cable only had a Red/White cable, no ground. This caused my audio to be really low and the receiver to shut off.
Images:

Receiver Back:
 
 
Amp Back:

 
Switch Back:

 

[MindsMirror]

Your receiver doesn't appear to have a line level output. The speaker output of the receiver should not be used to drive the input of the amplifier. The only way seems to be using the receiver's headphone output connected to the amp's RCA input.
 
Why not just forget about the Crown amp and use the receiver's amplifier?

 

[crewxp]

-Edit-

 

[crewxp]

  Your receiver doesn't appear to have a line level output. The speaker output of the receiver should not be used to drive the input of the amplifier. The only way seems to be using the receiver's headphone output connected to the amp's RCA input.
 
Why not just forget about the Crown amp and use the receiver's amplifier?

Wow.  Okay, I knew it was my wiring. The old contractors for my place hooked everything up, but it never worked. They had it wired exactly like I tried, so I tried doing the same thing because I assumed that was how it was supposed to be done.
I'm heading to bestbuy later to try and buy some alternative cabling. What would you suggest I buy? 
 
Is my only option (If I want to use the amp), to use the headphones out? Any XLR cable or product alternative? You suggested ditching the amp. If the amp isn't needed, I wonder why they set it up that way if only the receiver is supposed to be used. Isn't an amp supposed to provide better sound for more speakers?
 
Oh and also. THANK YOU MindsMirror a lot for the reply. This issue has been lingering for about a year now since the place was built for us.
 
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We also have an almost exact setup powering speakers for the outside deck. Except we have 4 speakers inside and 8 outdoor speakers. And we don't have a crown amp for that, we have a Atlas Sound CP400. That amp doesn't have the RCA input like the XLS does. Just XLR and Speaker inputs.

 

[MindsMirror]

  Wow.  Okay, I knew it was my wiring. The old contractors for my place hooked everything up, but it never worked. They had it wired exactly like I tried, so I tried doing the same thing because I assumed that was how it was supposed to be done.
I'm heading to bestbuy later to try and buy some alternative cabling. What would you suggest I buy? 
 
Is my only option (If I want to use the amp), to use the headphones out? Any XLR cable or product alternative? You suggested ditching the amp. If the amp isn't needed, I wonder why they set it up that way if only the receiver is supposed to be used. Isn't an amp supposed to provide better sound for more speakers?
 
Oh and also. THANK YOU MindsMirror a lot for the reply. This issue has been lingering for about a year now since the place was built for us.
 
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We also have an almost exact setup powering speakers for the outside deck. Except we have 4 speakers inside and 8 outdoor speakers. And we don't have a crown amp for that, we have a Atlas Sound CP400. That amp doesn't have the RCA input like the XLS does. Just XLR and Speaker inputs.

A receiver is an amplifier, with additional features such as multiple A/V inputs, a DAC, surround processing, and you mentioned Bluetooth/Pandora hosting as well. If they wired the speaker output of the receiver to a second amp, it sounds like they didn't know what they were doing either.
 
The Crown amp is more powerful (per channel) than the receiver, so I'm not sure if you need it to be able to power all of the speakers through the switch at once. Is that what it's for, or does the switch just select between pairs? If it's just powering two speakers at a time, the receiver should have plenty. You may need to find out the impedance of the speakers first. The receiver is only meant to handle down to 6 Ohms so if they are less than that it could be why you have the separate amp.
 
If you want/need the separate amp, you need a headphone to RCA cable, then speaker wire from the amp to the switch box. Otherwise connect the speaker wire from the receiver to the switch. With the receiver you could also forget the switch and wire the speakers straight to the receiver, it has 7.2 channels so you could have surround sound if you use it for movies.
 
You might want to check the outside setup that they didn't connect an amplified output from the receiver to a low level input of a second amplifier.

 

[crewxp]

  A receiver is an amplifier, with additional features such as multiple A/V inputs, a DAC, surround processing, and you mentioned Bluetooth/Pandora hosting as well. If they wired the speaker output of the receiver to a second amp, it sounds like they didn't know what they were doing either.
 
The Crown amp is more powerful (per channel) than the receiver, so I'm not sure if you need it to be able to power all of the speakers through the switch at once. Is that what it's for, or does the switch just select between pairs? If it's just powering two speakers at a time, the receiver should have plenty. You may need to find out the impedance of the speakers first. The receiver is only meant to handle down to 6 Ohms so if they are less than that it could be why you have the separate amp.
 
If you want/need the separate amp, you need a headphone to RCA cable, then speaker wire from the amp to the switch box. Otherwise connect the speaker wire from the receiver to the switch. With the receiver you could also forget the switch and wire the speakers straight to the receiver, it has 7.2 channels so you could have surround sound if you use it for movies.
 
You might want to check the outside setup that they didn't connect an amplified output from the receiver to a low level input of a second amplifier.

The switch I use just lets me choose which speakers to use. It is ideally supposed to be supplying audio to all speakers (8 outside, 6 inside). For example, if I don't want all speakers outside playing the audio, and just the inside speakers.

But I see the problem now. The Receiver's speaker outputs are too powerful for the amp? But why is the volume so low then compared to the headphones? Amp auto lowering because its too high of a voltage? The way they wired it before must have been really wrong. I was just going based off of their previous attempt.

My solutions?:
-Wire directly to the receiver and experience a slight power loss of not using the good amp? I need to see if the overall impedance is greater than 6 first, correct? I can do this using a battery maybe?
-Wire RCA to amp from headphone jack on receiver. Anything wrong with this besides looks?
-Buy something to strip power from the receivers speaker outputs before going to the amp?
 
It also doesn't look like the outside speakers have anything special attached to them besides really good and hidden wiring. No external amp found.

 

[MindsMirror]

An amplifier is meant to drive low impedance speakers which draw a lot of current. The input to an amplifier has a very high impedance and should draw minimal current. When you feed the output of one amplifier into the input of another, they are just not working as intended. Because of the low impedance load, an amp usually needs a relatively low voltage to supply sufficient current, where as the input is meant to draw nearly zero current, and use a relatively high voltage. Therefor you may need to set a high volume on the receiver for the second amp to get a sufficiently high voltage at its input. In the end you are sending the signal through two amplifiers which shouldn't be necessary and will increase noise and distortion.
 
I think none of the solutions involving the second amp would really be ideal. I might be wrong but I think the headphone output on a receiver is often just the front LR channel amplifier output with a resistor in it to bring the power down. If that is true, connecting the second amp through the headphone plug would be the same as connecting it through the speaker outputs on the back.
 
 
Looking at the switch box, it has an amplifier protection circuit which I guess adds some resistance so that it might not matter if you use speakers of <6Ohms. Also, it says it can only handle 100W of continuous power which is still less than the receiver can produce, so maybe you don't even benefit from the more powerful amp anyway.
 
I think you should first try just removing the Crown amp and connecting the receiver straight to the switch box with the amp protection turned on.

 

[crewxp]

  An amplifier is meant to drive low impedance speakers which draw a lot of current. The input to an amplifier has a very high impedance and should draw minimal current. When you feed the output of one amplifier into the input of another, they are just not working as intended. Because of the low impedance load, an amp usually needs a relatively low voltage to supply sufficient current, where as the input is meant to draw nearly zero current, and use a relatively high voltage. Therefor you may need to set a high volume on the receiver for the second amp to get a sufficiently high voltage at its input. In the end you are sending the signal through two amplifiers which shouldn't be necessary and will increase noise and distortion.
 
I think none of the solutions involving the second amp would really be ideal. I might be wrong but I think the headphone output on a receiver is often just the front LR channel amplifier output with a resistor in it to bring the power down. If that is true, connecting the second amp through the headphone plug would be the same as connecting it through the speaker outputs on the back.
 
 
Looking at the switch box, it has an amplifier protection circuit which I guess adds some resistance so that it might not matter if you use speakers of <6Ohms. Also, it says it can only handle 100W of continuous power which is still less than the receiver can produce, so maybe you don't even benefit from the more powerful amp anyway.
 
I think you should first try just removing the Crown amp and connecting the receiver straight to the switch box with the amp protection turned on.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense now. I'm a computer engineer, so I can grasp your wording a bit better now. I think their installation of the amp and their previous wiring attempts just really confused me.
 
Since I only need a Left and Right, would I connect the switch wiring to the Front Left/Right receiver outputs? Or do I hook it to the High Front L/R / Bi-Amp / Surround Inputs. If I remember reading the manual correctly, the bi-amp/Front LR would give me more power right?
 
This would be ideal over using the headphones to the random amp?
 
Ideally... would the same setup be recommended for the 2nd outside setup with the other random but larger/powerful amp? How would I know when/If I need to use that amp for my second setup?
 
And.. THANKS a bunch again! I finally feel so much less confused

 

[MindsMirror]

  Wow, that makes a lot of sense now. I'm a computer engineer, so I can grasp your wording a bit better now. I think their installation of the amp and their previous wiring attempts just really confused me.
 
Since I only need a Left and Right, would I connect the switch wiring to the Front Left/Right receiver outputs? Or do I hook it to the High Front L/R / Bi-Amp / Surround Inputs. If I remember reading the manual correctly, the bi-amp/Front LR would give me more power right?
 
This would be ideal over using the headphones to the random amp?
 
Ideally... would the same setup be recommended for the 2nd outside setup with the other random but larger/powerful amp? How would I know when/If I need to use that amp for my second setup?
 
And.. THANKS a bunch again! I finally feel so much less confused

I'm in the middle of getting me computer engineering degree myself. I'm not really familiar with bi-amping, or how it's done with your receiver. You can certainly try it, or just use the regular front L/R output. As long as the receiver has enough power it should be better than using another amp. After all, if the signal is going though both amps, you'll hear the worst of either of them. If the receiver just can't get loud enough or you need to set it close to full volume then you may want to use the more powerful amp.
 
I'm not sure I followed what exactly the second setup is. I thought the switch was used to select which inside and/or outside speakers the first receiver and amp went to. What does the second receiver and amp do? Basically just try to avoid running the signal through both amps on either setup, unless you need to to get enough power.
 
I'm glad I could help!

 

[crewxp]

  I'm in the middle of getting me computer engineering degree myself. I'm not really familiar with bi-amping, or how it's done with your receiver. You can certainly try it, or just use the regular front L/R output. As long as the receiver has enough power it should be better than using another amp. After all, if the signal is going though both amps, you'll hear the worst of either of them. If the receiver just can't get loud enough or you need to set it close to full volume then you may want to use the more powerful amp.
 
I'm not sure I followed what exactly the second setup is. I thought the switch was used to select which inside and/or outside speakers the first receiver and amp went to. What does the second receiver and amp do? Basically just try to avoid running the signal through both amps on either setup, unless you need to to get enough power.
 
I'm glad I could help!

Thanks! Yeah, I'll definitely try it. Just thought I'ld ask before I researched a bit into bi-amping or if that even provided any benefit. 
 
The second setup powers an entirely different set of speakers in an entirely different area. The switch still does exactly what the switch does in the first setup. It's a 'recreation' area on a rooftop for people. Where as the first setup was a workout room . Those little ceiling speakers you see at some places that look like they are built into the place. Once it's sealed, it's hard to know what's inside.

 

[crewxp]

Hooking directly from the receiver works. The audio plays just fine.
 
But the outside speakers don't play well on my second receiver/amp combo setup. I can hear audio but barely. I took a look at them and on the back of the speakers, there's a dial that says 100V & 70V with 7.5,15,and 30W near the 100V. And 3.75,7.5,15, and 30W near the 70V. What should these be set to with my combo? DNR840 Receiver with the unused Atlas Sound CP400 amp.
 
Does this mean the outside speakers have to have the amp hooked to them? Any way to wire the receiver to not use the amp for the inside speakers, but use the amp for the outside speakers? (Is this called Pass through?)
Back of Speaker: http://i.imgur.com/7USX3cA.jpg

 

[MindsMirror]

30W 70V should be the loudest setting. It looks like a constant voltage speaker system, the dial enables you to set each speaker to different volumes while they are all using the same amp. Is it possible that the outside speakers are set to lower power than the inside ones?
 
I think you can take the outside speaker leads and connect them all in parallel to the amp. Then connect the receiver to the switch, and connect one of the switch outputs to the amp.

 

[johno99]

The speakers in your system are meant for large distribution systems, where long cable runs will not introduce losses. The 100V and 70V on the speakers are looking for a constant voltage from the amplifier. To have a constant voltage from the amplifier one needs a transformer attached to the outputs normal 8ohm speaker taps. (see http://www.parts-express.com/resources-70-volt-system-beginners for a detailed explanation). The installers were correct to put in this type of system if the wiring is lengthy, but have unfortunately left it up to you to figure it out. Rane Corporation sells transformers to convert 8ohms to 70.7V or 100V - you'll need one for each channel (see more details at http://www.rane.com/note136.html and http://www.rane.com/pdf/mt6_data.pdf)

 

[cel4145]

Since I only need a Left and Right, would I connect the switch wiring to the Front Left/Right receiver outputs? Or do I hook it to the High Front L/R / Bi-Amp / Surround Inputs. If I remember reading the manual correctly, the bi-amp/Front LR would give me more power right?

The bi-amp capabilities on an AVR are a gimmick. A true bi-amp setup requires speakers with active crossovers, which I'm sure you don't have.

 

[crewxp]

Good update!
 
I got setup1 working fine without the XLS amp. Straight from the receiver to speakers actually sounds a bit better in my opinion. I wonder why that is.
 
Setup2: Having issues with the outside speakers. They are 'popping'/'distorting' when the audio first starts playing. Then it seems like it levels itself out, then it 'pops' only on bass parts on songs/audio. Mostly during commercials or from digital bassy sources.
Wiring: I'm running the indoor speakers straight from the receiver to the switch, which then goes to the speakers. For OUTDOOR speakers, The switch goes to the amp, which is set to 70V Transformer 'Parallel' mode. Which then feeds directly to the 8 speakers outside.
 
I can't get the popping to stop on the outside speakers. The inside sound great. 
 
-Also bought a line-out to RCA coverter. Would I need that for my second setup to decrease receiver voltage to the amp to the outside speakers?