[Solan]

Which technologies have progressed, and which have stood still.

In the chip corner, I hear little news about anything new and revolutionising, and even “older” model from a few years back remain top models. TI’s best chip is a Burr-Brown from … 2008, I think, and improvements from other companies have been marginal and measurable rather than audible, as far as I can discern.

R2R has improved lately, though, and people go euphonic over (for instance) the Denafripp sound, and the Multibit variety of R2R (like in the Schiit models) also get shining reviews reviews. So something has happened in the R2R field, if we are not hearing "phlogiston", hearing an improvement simply because we want to hear it.

But given that R2R sounds better: is R2R really any better than chips, once we’re past a minimal price level? Or are we still just choosing what to sacrifice: clarity, or musicality?

Finally: Is it rather than D->A itself the amplification stage inside a DAC that distinguishes the bosses from the wannabes? That is, a technology that is essentially the same these days as it was 10 years ago.

 

[eric5kim]

Hi-res going more mainstream = more buyers => more $$$ = more competition => getting better products for less money IMO. Competition is always good for the consumer.

Oh, so better implementations + better-designed chips +better filters etc etc IMO.

 

[AverageEars]

It seems that when it comes to DAC chips, we're essentially splitting hairs as any notable sonic improvements won't readily be audibly different for more than a select few listeners. What is improving though is energy efficiency, and with regard to mobile units, this improvement is fantastic.

 

[Solan]

Hi-res going more mainstream = more buyers => more $$$ = more competition => getting better products for less money IMO. Competition is always good for the consumer.

Oh, so better implementations + better-designed chips +better filters etc etc IMO.

Very good point, and with Apple now going for lossless in their music streaming service, it will force competitors like Spotify to upgrade their offering as well, and Tidal and Qobuz to offer even more premium services past plain lossless. Well, Qobuz. I think Tidal will be going uinder, since they have faced controversy both because of MQA and because of business practices.

Also, on the filter side that you bring up, Chord's Rob Watt is going for ever longer filters to turn the DACs into more accurate Nyquist machines. It would be exciting indeed if technology à la M Scaler became the new standard within the next 5 years.

 

[Solan]

It seems that when it comes to DAC chips, we're essentially splitting hairs as any notable sonic improvements won't readily be audibly different for more than a select few listeners. What is improving though is energy efficiency, and with regard to mobile units, this improvement is fantastic.

For portable gear, that's an important improvement. The audible differences, though, depend not only on the listener, but on the gear down the chain. If someone has a Bottom-Fi amp and headphones, DACs will indeed sound identical. But amping is becoming cheaper, and people are turning to more head-fi, so maybe noticing the difference will soon be more mainstream simply because higher quality gear downstream is becoming more abundant?

 

[AverageEars]

If someone has a Bottom-Fi amp and headphones, DACs will indeed sound identical. But amping is becoming cheaper, and people are turning to more head-fi, so maybe noticing the difference will soon be more mainstream simply because higher quality gear downstream is becoming more abundant?

I agree with your first point, entirely. Suppose that my earlier statement made about subtleties in DAC chips was more directed at the community here who typically listens to gear a few levels higher than Bottom-Fi. In those instances, the whole diminishing returns argument (both in DAC and downstream) seems somewhat relevant. The gear I own today is fantastic and better than things I owned a couple of decades ago for sure, but moving on from here and with aging ears, I'm not sure that DAC quality or even amp quality is going to make substantial strides besides what is measured in lab equipment.