[MICHAELSD]

While I have been very conscious of hearing loss for a long time, even measuring the decibel levels of my headphones and not listening above 90 decibels as well as wearing earplugs at concerts, I bought a Klipsch KMC 3 speaker, which has a max loudness of 105 decibels and have been using it during my morning cardio at home. However, since I use my iPhone to drive it through a wired connection and the decibel meter app on my phone doesn't function while music is playing I have been unable to do my measurements. For the past week or so I've been listening to it quite loudly -- about 7/8th of its max volume some days which provides incredibly powerful bass for a wireless speaker. One day I did go overboard and listened to it at this volume for about 6 hours whilst doing cardio, which was an amazing experience to burn all those calories listening to the Coldplay Live 2012 album on a system that makes it feel like being at a concert. Now that I have done some measurements it seems the speaker can reach well over 91 decibels -- even as high as 99 decibels at my usual distance from it at 5/8th volume.
 
Today, my ears have been hurting all day and I haven't been able to enjoy music especially from a speaker. I expect this to heal and for my hearing to seem to go back to normal but I'm concerned about how much hearing loss can affect audiophile enjoyment. I did do a hearing test online with my ATH-700 and it seems I can hear somewhere up to 16-17Hz still. Is there really sound data in those higher frequencies that would a difference in the sound or fullness?
 
I do regret abusing my ears with the speaker as I've been doing so well listening to quality audio yet not pushing the volume to extremes. In other words, am I/people with hearing loss much worse than mine ****ed?

 

[RRod]

  While I have been very conscious of hearing loss for a long time, even measuring the decibel levels of my headphones and not listening above 90 decibels as well as wearing earplugs at concerts, I bought a Klipsch KMC 3 speaker, which has a max loudness of 105 decibels and have been using it during my morning cardio at home. However, since I use my iPhone to drive it through a wired connection and the decibel meter app on my phone doesn't function while music is playing I have been unable to do my measurements. For the past week or so I've been listening to it quite loudly -- about 7/8th of its max volume some days which provides incredibly powerful bass for a wireless speaker. One day I did go overboard and listened to it at this volume for about 6 hours whilst doing cardio, which was an amazing experience to burn all those calories listening to the Coldplay Live 2012 album on a system that makes it feel like being at a concert. Now that I have done some measurements it seems the speaker can reach well over 91 decibels -- even as high as 99 decibels at my usual distance from it at 5/8th volume.
 
Today, my ears have been hurting all day and I haven't been able to enjoy music especially from a speaker. I expect this to heal and for my hearing to seem to go back to normal but I'm concerned about how much hearing loss can affect audiophile enjoyment. I did do a hearing test online with my ATH-700 and it seems I can hear somewhere up to 16-17Hz still. Is there really sound data in those higher frequencies that would a difference in the sound or fullness?
 
I do regret abusing my ears with the speaker as I've been doing so well listening to quality audio yet not pushing the volume to extremes. In other words, am I/people with hearing loss much worse than mine ****ed?

 
Discomfort is common after excessively loud and extended listening. Safety standards here in the US would limit continuous exposure at 99dBA to between 2 and 3 hours, and 90dBA for 8 hours. So yeah, you probably overdid it a bit. Did you screw up your hearing? Hard to figure out if you hadn't been to an audiologist before this. Just note things that seem to sound different than before, and if things really start to concern you (or you notice something obvious like tinnitus) then go see someone.
 
Online tests are hard to judge because they are hard to calibrate, so it's hard to know how loud the signal was when you heard it at 16-17kHz. But such a range seems reasonable for a top-end for an adult, especially at normal volumes. I don't think such a range is going to change your sense of fullness.

 

[cjl]

100ish dB for 6 hours is very unlikely to cause any real permanent damage. Just watch the volume level in the future and you should be fine.

 

[gregorio]

I don't think there's any doubt that you have damaged your hearing, after all, that's the whole point of pain, to tell us when we're injured. The only questions to be answered are: How much damage you've done and how efficiently your body can repair that damage? I don't think anyone can give you definitive answers. My own opinion is that the body is generally pretty good at repairing itself, although rarely perfectly. There's usually some remnant of the damage even though you might not be particularly aware of it, sometimes for years. Caveat: I'm moderately well read on the subject but I'm not an expert, so my opinion could easily be worthless.
 
On a side note, there's mounting evidence that the US, WHO and others' safety standards/recommendations are currently set too high and long term damage can be caused by levels significantly lower and of lesser duration.
 
G

 

[watchnerd]

   which has a max loudness of 105 decibels

 
LOL if thate little toy will actually  do 105 dB max, wide spectrum, at 1 meter I'll eat my underwear,
 
Maybe they'll do it for 1 khz at 1 foot.

 

[Raketen]

Originally Posted by MICHAELSD /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
.... it seems I can hear somewhere up to 16-17Hz still. Is there really sound data in those higher frequencies that would a difference in the sound or fullness?
 
I do regret abusing my ears with the speaker as I've been doing so well listening to quality audio yet not pushing the volume to extremes. In other words, am I/people with hearing loss much worse than mine ****ed?

 
Depends on how much Ryoji Ikeda you listen to

I think that's the average hearing range of a ~30 year old.
 
I guess 6 hours of cardio is common for you? I have found certain types of bodily stress & exhaustion can cause that type of pain for me (ear/sinus infections, colds etc as well). Obviously, check with a doctor if it continues.
Hope it gets better

 

 

[chazb11]

You should be concerned about hearing loss but not because it may effect you music listening enjoyment. I'm 60 years old and recently used some test tones and sweeps to check my hearing. The results were shocking. I can no longer hear anything above around 14Khz and my right ear has a couple of small "dead spots" well below 14Khz. In spite of this I still enjoy my music very much...in fact it still sounds just like it ever did to my brain. (although now that I know about the dead spots I can notice that some instruments / vocals change position on the soundstage depending upon frequency)

 

[Pio2001]

Hi,
Do not expose yourself to high volume for such long times !
 
I have had a permanent hearing damage staying 8 hours in a nightclub where I estimated the sound level to be 110 dB.
My hearing limit dropped from 16 kHz to 14-15 kHz. I became unable to estimate the sound level as accurately as I did before. Ringing in my ears became more present. Then I progressively became more and more sensitive to sudden sounds. Now, violently dropping a fork into a plate causes my hearing to loose its treble for several seconds.
Staying in a shopping center for two hours triggers my tinnitus for the day.
 
I started with a below average hearing (16 kHz at the age of 16), got out in clubs, and listened a lot with headphones, but there was definitely a before and an after this particular night. Now I'm 40 and I can hear up to 13500 Hz (barely 14 kHz with one ear).
 
The enjoyment of treble sounds have lessened a bit, but no more than expected if you consider the numbers.

 

[watchnerd]

  You should be concerned about hearing loss but not because it may effect you music listening enjoyment. I'm 60 years old and recently used some test tones and sweeps to check my hearing. The results were shocking. I can no longer hear anything above around 14Khz and my right ear has a couple of small "dead spots" well below 14Khz. In spite of this I still enjoy my music very much...in fact it still sounds just like it ever did to my brain. (although now that I know about the dead spots I can notice that some instruments / vocals change position on the soundstage depending upon frequency)

 
I'm not surprised that music sounds pretty much the same -- there isn't much musical content above 14khz.
 
BTW, 14khz for over 60 is pretty good.

 

[dprimary]

The speaker's maximum output is 105dB at .5 meter which is a strange specification since the standard measurement is at one meter. At 1 meter it will be 99dB. The volume setting does not really matter the continuous output level is dependent on the amplifier output and the thermal limits of the voice coil in the speaker. Volume level 5 and scale of 8 could still be the maximum output of the speaker, 6,7, and 8 could just be higher levels of distortion.
 
Unless you have an external measurement microphone and an acoustic calibrator the app on your phone is likely to be off a few dB.
 
At 99dB you should limit your exposure to between 15 to 30 minutes.

 

[McClelland]

  You should be concerned about hearing loss but not because it may effect you music listening enjoyment. I'm 60 years old and recently used some test tones and sweeps to check my hearing. The results were shocking. I can no longer hear anything above around 14Khz and my right ear has a couple of small "dead spots" well below 14Khz. In spite of this I still enjoy my music very much...in fact it still sounds just like it ever did to my brain. (although now that I know about the dead spots I can notice that some instruments / vocals change position on the soundstage depending upon frequency)

Been very interested in this topic since moving to headphones as I'd like to conserve my aging responsiveness (of all sorts) as much as possible. One of the things I like about headphones with good amplification is that I am drawn to listening at lower volumes.  It seems easier to find a volume sweet spot that maintains the audio experience that I enjoy.  It was definitely possible with room speakers and specific listening positions, but I'm no longer tied to that location or changing room dynamics. I may yet go back to speakers because of sound stage benefits but for now the trade-offs seem well worth it and more listening at a lower volume may be beneficial.  I've also noted that with over the ear/open-backed phones, the pads keep moisture from evaporating from my skin after about 30-45 minutes listening.  It's just enough to notice and it's a great signal for taking a break.  It reminds me to get up and move around, good for my ears and my back, and for getting things done as the break really does seem to benefit focus and unexpected insights.

 

[RRod]

Of possible interest / relevance:
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35938704

 

[RCBinTN]

 
Been very interested in this topic since moving to headphones as I'd like to conserve my aging responsiveness (of all sorts) as much as possible. One of the things I like about headphones with good amplification is that I am drawn to listening at lower volumes.  It seems easier to find a volume sweet spot that maintains the audio experience that I enjoy.  It was definitely possible with room speakers and specific listening positions, but I'm no longer tied to that location or changing room dynamics. I may yet go back to speakers because of sound stage benefits but for now the trade-offs seem well worth it and more listening at a lower volume may be beneficial.  I've also noted that with over the ear/open-backed phones, the pads keep moisture from evaporating from my skin after about 30-45 minutes listening.  It's just enough to notice and it's a great signal for taking a break.  It reminds me to get up and move around, good for my ears and my back, and for getting things done as the break really does seem to benefit focus and unexpected insights.

 
Plus, after 30-45 minutes it's time for another beer.
 

 

[McClelland]

Thanks for the link. A disturbing story.  Cilia are like water.  We just don't get anymore than what we have. Been checking some manufacturer's sites to see what they say, given product liability issues and expecting them to be pretty non-specific.  Shure offfers some info in its guide for professional IEM's for musicians.  Noble seems to just say don't listen loud. Given their roots, it was not surprising to find Etymotics as the most interesting to me.  They really got my attention about how much more of an issue it is to deal with exposure to ambient and intermittent sound in the environment.  I enjoy big city walking a lot and have gravitated away from headphone listening there because of frequent need to increase volume to hear over background noise and not wanting to use isolating phones when out and about.  I'm going to try out Etymotic's HD safety earplugs.  Reminds me of realizing I needed to be wearing a helmet when skiing.

  Of possible interest / relevance:
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35938704

 

[watchnerd]

  Thanks for the link. A disturbing story.  Cilia are like water.  We just don't get anymore than what we have. 
 

 
I don't know about you, but I can make water.