Buster Sword
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Thanks! I look forward to high end senns with a xin to start off with!
How much better is a PIMETA than a MINT?
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rayupton
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just posted a jmt pimeta portable over in the fs: ads.... real good amp for the money!
fewtch
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Size really has little to do with it (no pun intended) -- it's the quality of the design, quality of parts used, quality of power delivered to the amp.
The Mint is a good design, but is hampered significantly in its low-power incarnations. Headsave's "MiniMe" is an example of a maxed-out Mint designed to be used with a linear regulated power supply or large battery pack.
Assuming a maxed-out Mint with top quality parts and excellent/clean power, you'll imo get definitively hi-fi sound from it (and it does drive HD600s fine). But again, the "altoids tin" low power portable configurations introduce a significant SQ limitation, and (fortunately or unfortunately) that's the configuration people use with the Mint 95% of the time.
Because the Mint has relatively little buffering, it takes on the characteristic of the op-amp used to a ridiculous degree. This is evident with my MiniMe with AD8620... it's aggressive to the point of insanity with the volume turned up. All in all, a very "hot" sound (hard to think how else to describe it) that works fairly well with laid back headphones like HD6x0 -- not sure I'd even want to hear it with a more aggressive pair of cans.
| Originally posted by sbulack Posted by CD44hi ( http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=65202 ) "I actually was bold enough to try to drive the HD-600s with the Supermini. To my dismay it does a good job at my listening levels, which are I would call between low to medium. I liked the JMT MINT also with the Senns. It is quite a revelation for me that such little amps could drive the HD-600s that well. However it depends on the listener particular listening levels, as if I tried to go to higher volume, I could see weaknesses surface." |
Size really has little to do with it (no pun intended) -- it's the quality of the design, quality of parts used, quality of power delivered to the amp.
The Mint is a good design, but is hampered significantly in its low-power incarnations. Headsave's "MiniMe" is an example of a maxed-out Mint designed to be used with a linear regulated power supply or large battery pack.
Assuming a maxed-out Mint with top quality parts and excellent/clean power, you'll imo get definitively hi-fi sound from it (and it does drive HD600s fine). But again, the "altoids tin" low power portable configurations introduce a significant SQ limitation, and (fortunately or unfortunately) that's the configuration people use with the Mint 95% of the time.
Because the Mint has relatively little buffering, it takes on the characteristic of the op-amp used to a ridiculous degree. This is evident with my MiniMe with AD8620... it's aggressive to the point of insanity with the volume turned up. All in all, a very "hot" sound (hard to think how else to describe it) that works fairly well with laid back headphones like HD6x0 -- not sure I'd even want to hear it with a more aggressive pair of cans.
jboehle
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Does your Mini Me have stacked buffers at all? Just wondering how much difference 1 BUF634 makes vs. 4 stacked.
-Jason
-Jason
CD44hi
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Completely agree with this point. In fact, in terms of small sized amplifiers driving the HD600s, the Moretto HAP-01, a tube amp though, is quite small. (I think it beats the EMP in size) However is capable of rendering the sound out of the HD600s so musical and fun that one just forgets and starts listening for real.... I guess that's what matters
.
My comments regarding the MINT and Supermini illustrate this point within a "solid state" context. It is worth pointing out that one will not get the same level of detail and finese out of these small amps (the HAP-01 included) (detailed amps that sound good with Senns: an Ear HP4 or Supra, and in solid state: I enjoyed the Gilmore V1 very much with Senns, the Perraux as well). However, I found META/supermini very musical and enjoyable, at low to medium listening levels they sound good with the 600s.
So addressing the original question, yes, the small format SS amps will do very decently, at low-medium listening levels, with the HD-600s. I have not heard the HD-580s with either MINT or supermini incarnations.
| Originally posted by fewtch Size really has little to do with it (no pun intended) -- it's the quality of the design, quality of parts used, quality of power delivered to the amp. |
Completely agree with this point. In fact, in terms of small sized amplifiers driving the HD600s, the Moretto HAP-01, a tube amp though, is quite small. (I think it beats the EMP in size) However is capable of rendering the sound out of the HD600s so musical and fun that one just forgets and starts listening for real.... I guess that's what matters
My comments regarding the MINT and Supermini illustrate this point within a "solid state" context. It is worth pointing out that one will not get the same level of detail and finese out of these small amps (the HAP-01 included) (detailed amps that sound good with Senns: an Ear HP4 or Supra, and in solid state: I enjoyed the Gilmore V1 very much with Senns, the Perraux as well). However, I found META/supermini very musical and enjoyable, at low to medium listening levels they sound good with the 600s.
So addressing the original question, yes, the small format SS amps will do very decently, at low-medium listening levels, with the HD-600s. I have not heard the HD-580s with either MINT or supermini incarnations.
fewtch
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No, I don't believe the MiniMe has stacked buffers, but I've never opened it up to look (could be double-stacked, at best). It uses Buf634's, I think.
My Headsave Ultra (I) with quad-stacked Elantec's is much more neutral and less colored by the op-amp's sonic signature. I use a battery pack with it, which helps even more.
| Originally posted by jboehle Does your Mini Me have stacked buffers at all? Just wondering how much difference 1 BUF634 makes vs. 4 stacked. -Jason |
No, I don't believe the MiniMe has stacked buffers, but I've never opened it up to look (could be double-stacked, at best). It uses Buf634's, I think.
My Headsave Ultra (I) with quad-stacked Elantec's is much more neutral and less colored by the op-amp's sonic signature. I use a battery pack with it, which helps even more.
Buster Sword
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Its so funny. Over here we say "..sorry about your wallet"
On the contrary, no one has pressured me to go so expensive. So far, People are defending the xins/metas.
On sharky's they say NO you cant buy an hd580 unless you get a 500 dollar sources and a 400 dollar PPA, at the MINIMUM. They go as far as telling me i need a 1000 bucks to start off with, so screw them, what the hell do they know?
according to my budget, and my ears, I should be able to START off with a xin, marantz, Hd580 and be happy for a little while until i can save up for the zu cable and a better amplifier. I am glad to hear that people can say yes, its enjoyable at xin levels, but don't expect the most out of it. I am glad to not hear the XTREME of saying dont buy it from other people/other forums.
On the contrary, no one has pressured me to go so expensive. So far, People are defending the xins/metas.
On sharky's they say NO you cant buy an hd580 unless you get a 500 dollar sources and a 400 dollar PPA, at the MINIMUM. They go as far as telling me i need a 1000 bucks to start off with, so screw them, what the hell do they know?
according to my budget, and my ears, I should be able to START off with a xin, marantz, Hd580 and be happy for a little while until i can save up for the zu cable and a better amplifier. I am glad to hear that people can say yes, its enjoyable at xin levels, but don't expect the most out of it. I am glad to not hear the XTREME of saying dont buy it from other people/other forums.
fewtch
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Errm... first you agree with me, then you say one won't get the same degree of detail and finesse with "small" amps? I'm confused.
I don't know where people get the idea that size has something to do with SQ. At best, there's more room in the case to add more buffers and power conditioning (and such) with a larger amp, but any *direct* relationship between SQ and size would be entirely imaginary. Does it matter what size the case and/or circuit board are?
Quote:
Nothing -- they only know what sounds good to them. Buy what you can afford (or audition first if possible), listen and decide for yourself. Taking other people's recommendations as to what constitutes good sound has led more than one person down the path of wasted money and/or a system they dislike.
| Originally posted by CD44hi Completely agree with this point. In fact, in terms of small sized amplifiers driving the HD600s, the Moretto HAP-01, a tube amp though, is quite small. (I think it beats the EMP in size) However is capable of rendering the sound out of the HD600s so musical and fun that one just forgets and starts listening for real.... I guess that's what matters
My comments regarding the MINT and Supermini illustrate this point within a "solid state" context. It is worth pointing out that one will not get the same level of detail and finese out of these small amps (the HAP-01 included) (detailed amps that sound good with Senns: an Ear HP4 or Supra, and in solid state: I enjoyed the Gilmore V1 very much with Senns, the Perraux as well). However, I found META/supermini very musical and enjoyable, at low to medium listening levels they sound good with the 600s. |
Errm... first you agree with me, then you say one won't get the same degree of detail and finesse with "small" amps? I'm confused.
I don't know where people get the idea that size has something to do with SQ. At best, there's more room in the case to add more buffers and power conditioning (and such) with a larger amp, but any *direct* relationship between SQ and size would be entirely imaginary. Does it matter what size the case and/or circuit board are?
Quote:
| Originally posted by Buster Sword Its so funny. Over here we say "..sorry about your wallet" On the contrary, no one has pressured me to go so expensive. So far, People are defending the xins/metas. On sharky's they say NO you cant buy an hd580 unless you get a 500 dollar sources and a 400 dollar PPA, at the MINIMUM. They go as far as telling me i need a 1000 bucks to start off with, so screw them, what the hell do they know? |
Nothing -- they only know what sounds good to them. Buy what you can afford (or audition first if possible), listen and decide for yourself. Taking other people's recommendations as to what constitutes good sound has led more than one person down the path of wasted money and/or a system they dislike.
sbulack
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Buster Sword:
I started with a $40 PCDP and a pair of KOSS PRO-4AAA that I bought at Best Buy, and I was very happy. One piece at a time, I migrated to the rig in my sig, and at each step of the way, I was very happy. It was kinda funny when my rig consisted of that $40 PCDP and a pair of Grado SR225's (unamped). But my ears couldn't contain their delight from what they heard through the SR225's coming from that $40 CDP. Today, I have far from what can be called a high end rig, and guess what? I am very happy, and my ears can't BELIEVE what they get to hear on a daily basis. So, start where you can, and let your ears tell you where where to go next for what they are looking for. Getting suggestions from other people for the kinds of changes (and what might be the most cost-effective ones) that will give your ears what they are asking for is where places like Head-Fi come in. Now, you wouldn't want to start with a source, amp and phones that would totally frustrate you until you upgraded. But, based on what CD44hi has posted about the Senn HD600's and the Xin SuperMini 6.x, that's not likely to be the case with what you've proposed.
I have an off-subject suggestion for you: the AKG K240S. At 55 ohms, they will be driven very nicely without an amp, AND they improve so nicely with every amp I've tried from Mint to PPA and PPX3 so as to make the amp investment worth the money. AND, they can be had for $100 new. They deliver the detail of both the Grados and Senns, and sonic characteristics that go between the impact of the Grado SR225's and the refinement of the Senn HD600's, delivering most of the best of both, for about half the price. My SR225's are collecting a lot of dust these days, because I am using the K240S for all of my listening. Just a thought.
I started with a $40 PCDP and a pair of KOSS PRO-4AAA that I bought at Best Buy, and I was very happy. One piece at a time, I migrated to the rig in my sig, and at each step of the way, I was very happy. It was kinda funny when my rig consisted of that $40 PCDP and a pair of Grado SR225's (unamped). But my ears couldn't contain their delight from what they heard through the SR225's coming from that $40 CDP. Today, I have far from what can be called a high end rig, and guess what? I am very happy, and my ears can't BELIEVE what they get to hear on a daily basis. So, start where you can, and let your ears tell you where where to go next for what they are looking for. Getting suggestions from other people for the kinds of changes (and what might be the most cost-effective ones) that will give your ears what they are asking for is where places like Head-Fi come in. Now, you wouldn't want to start with a source, amp and phones that would totally frustrate you until you upgraded. But, based on what CD44hi has posted about the Senn HD600's and the Xin SuperMini 6.x, that's not likely to be the case with what you've proposed.
I have an off-subject suggestion for you: the AKG K240S. At 55 ohms, they will be driven very nicely without an amp, AND they improve so nicely with every amp I've tried from Mint to PPA and PPX3 so as to make the amp investment worth the money. AND, they can be had for $100 new. They deliver the detail of both the Grados and Senns, and sonic characteristics that go between the impact of the Grado SR225's and the refinement of the Senn HD600's, delivering most of the best of both, for about half the price. My SR225's are collecting a lot of dust these days, because I am using the K240S for all of my listening. Just a thought.
yeah, I am getting set to order my amp from JMT. I have been going back and forth between the MINT and the PIMETA. My setup is a 3G iPod with some Shure E3cs, Grado SR60s, and a pair of Senn PX100s. Most music ripped at 192 AAC.
It gets confusing because there are those who say to definitely get the PIMETA, and an equal amount who say that the MINT will do me just fine. I just hate to wonder "what if?" if I go with the MINT, but also don't want to spend more if the MINT will do the job well.
RIDE
It gets confusing because there are those who say to definitely get the PIMETA, and an equal amount who say that the MINT will do me just fine. I just hate to wonder "what if?" if I go with the MINT, but also don't want to spend more if the MINT will do the job well.
RIDE
Buster Sword
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Thanks everyone for your continual suggestions/support
K240s actually sounded good to me, I would debate that against the ATh-A500. I think details and vocals, piano was impressive with the k240s. Hmm
K240s actually sounded good to me, I would debate that against the ATh-A500. I think details and vocals, piano was impressive with the k240s. Hmm
CD44hi
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For me, there are several variables that I would like to fullfil while listening, Sources, amps, cables, and other links in the system will contribute or affect:
-Detail, which to my ears is the fidelity and delicacy in which the system reflects (or does not) the media (CD, LP or digital if you wish): How much nuances of the recording/performance can one perceive. This, in another system/circumstance, could be perhaps absent, diminished, or if the system has more resolution, then it could be enhanced. This will also include lack or minute artifacts like grain, etc.
-Musicality, which for me, is more important than the previous point. How well is the image presented and how much coherence one would percieve. Tridimensionality, space and timing are quite important for me in making such an appraisal. What good would it make to have all the detail without a coherent presentation? This applies not only to amps, but to sources as well.
It is in this last category which I believe this amps under discussion perform well, to my ears. I restate my point, I don't think the MINT or supermini present the same level of detail. Yet it is their good musicality I like. They presented to my ears a very coherent image. At a fraction of the cost as well.....
| Originally posted by fewtch Errm... first you agree with me, then you say one won't get the same degree of detail and finesse with "small" amps? I'm confused. . |
For me, there are several variables that I would like to fullfil while listening, Sources, amps, cables, and other links in the system will contribute or affect:
-Detail, which to my ears is the fidelity and delicacy in which the system reflects (or does not) the media (CD, LP or digital if you wish): How much nuances of the recording/performance can one perceive. This, in another system/circumstance, could be perhaps absent, diminished, or if the system has more resolution, then it could be enhanced. This will also include lack or minute artifacts like grain, etc.
-Musicality, which for me, is more important than the previous point. How well is the image presented and how much coherence one would percieve. Tridimensionality, space and timing are quite important for me in making such an appraisal. What good would it make to have all the detail without a coherent presentation? This applies not only to amps, but to sources as well.
It is in this last category which I believe this amps under discussion perform well, to my ears. I restate my point, I don't think the MINT or supermini present the same level of detail. Yet it is their good musicality I like. They presented to my ears a very coherent image. At a fraction of the cost as well.....
kunwar
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mate if you want to be sorry then just buy the Emmeline XP7 I am sure you will like it or better still get the Talisman T-3H.
i bought it and i don't think i will be getting another amp aytime soon.
\
so yeah.
| Originally posted by Buster Sword Its so funny. Over here we say "..sorry about your wallet" On the contrary, no one has pressured me to go so expensive. So far, People are defending the xins/metas. On sharky's they say NO you cant buy an hd580 unless you get a 500 dollar sources and a 400 dollar PPA, at the MINIMUM. They go as far as telling me i need a 1000 bucks to start off with, so screw them, what the hell do they know? according to my budget, and my ears, I should be able to START off with a xin, marantz, Hd580 and be happy for a little while until i can save up for the zu cable and a better amplifier. I am glad to hear that people can say yes, its enjoyable at xin levels, but don't expect the most out of it. I am glad to not hear the XTREME of saying dont buy it from other people/other forums. |
mate if you want to be sorry then just buy the Emmeline XP7 I am sure you will like it or better still get the Talisman T-3H.
i bought it and i don't think i will be getting another amp aytime soon.
\
so yeah.
Buster Sword
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Ok now it makes you the first lol ..900 bucks. Right. i can afford that. I was talking about affording a xin (110 bucks with student disc) I am sure it sounds good, but hell I can't afford it.. thanks anyway
Buster Sword
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Ok how much better is PIMETA compared to Xin v7? the xin is noted by xin himself to outclass the meta/mint or my $$ back.
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