[gratefulshrink]

I just saw the Red Wine Audio iMod referenced in another thread, and I read a little about it.

Can someone tell me (in a nutshell) how it would be functionally different than using the dock and connecting a Sik Ram Din or PocketDock or TurboDock to make it a line-out?

It looks like it costs over $200 and is a permanent change to the ipod. Does it really create a better signal than the line-out?

 

[BlueDevil]

I don't own a Red Wine iModded iPod, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I have researched it extensively on this board. Unfortunately, as you probably know, Vinnie is not currently modding 5G iPods (since the case is allegedly too cramped and is a nightmare to take apart, etc.).

The iMod essentially turns your headphone-out into a line-out. So, functionally, it works exactly the same as a Pocketdock or Sik-Din. However, according to the website, if you use the iPod standard line-out, the following "offenders" are in the signal path:
-- The low quality stock SMT coupling caps after the Wolfson WM8975 DAC (used in all 4th gen. iPods)
-- Opamp output stage following the Wolfson DAC
-- The minuscule circuit board traces that travel from the top of the mother board down to the dock connector jack
-- SMD resistors and inductors directly in the signal path
-- The dock connector jack at the bottom of the iPod
-- The signal path inside the iPod dock, which contains: the dock connector plug, a very cheap ribbon cable, more minuscule pcb traces, SMD resistors, and finally the line out jack.

Basically, the iMod bypasses these offenders by the following method: "Using D.H. Labs silver wire, we take the analog output (line out) off of the dac chip and send it directly to the internal 1/8" headphone jack (converting it into a dedicated line-out jack) via high-end Black Gate Non-Polarized NX HiQ coupling capacitors."

Presumably, the iMod minimizes signal degradation, which depending on your output increases apparent sound quality. At the very least, it offers a cleaner setup (than having a relatively large dock projecting off the end of your elegant iPod).

Having yet to hear one in action, however, I can't confirm that an iModded iPod is measurably better than an un-iModded iPod. I also tend to be skeptical of reviews where there is no objective data and/or no contemporaneous comparison to an unModded product and/or that make repeated reference to burn-in improvements over time (e.g., "X sounded marginal but after 200 hours it is really starting to open up and kick ass").

Take a look at http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html for more details...

 

[Chef Medeski]

Well, it also depends how good of headphones/amp you have. I mean certain combos will allow you to hear a stark difference while SR-80s or the like straight out of a PocketDock probably sounds about the same. Basically if you have the choice between $200 for a wire from your PocketDock and this mod, its an obvious choice. But, untill IMHO you buy at least $200 headphone and a $200 amp, you won't need this mod. At that point it is more about sheer convience I feel. Vinnie also used to offer a hMod which at only $89 improved sound quality from the headphone out, however it wasn't a line-out. I wanted to do this, but it seems he no longer offers it.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink I just saw the Red Wine Audio iMod referenced in another thread, and I read a little about it. Can someone tell me (in a nutshell) how it would be functionally different than using the dock and connecting a Sik Ram Din or PocketDock or TurboDock to make it a line-out? It looks like it costs over $200 and is a permanent change to the ipod. Does it really create a better signal than the line-out?

I got the iMod done, and there is a noticable improvement in sound quality. This comes from completely bypassing the iPod's output stage, and using ultra-high-quality Black Gate caps as a new output stage coming right off the DAC. It does improve the sound, and enough that anyone can notice given good headphones and a good amp.

Frankly, also for me, since I always use an amp with my iPod, the ability to have a line out WITHOUT having to deal with the Pocketdock is a BIG part of why I Like the iMod. Better for using with an amp (home or road), in my main stereo, in the car -- much more convenient than even the pocketdock. AND, better sound.

 

[gratefulshrink]

ok guys, but there is a HUGE cost difference here: pocketdock (or sik ram din or Turbodock) are all less than $30 and the iMOd is what, $200 (or more)?

I don't think you can argue convenience as a main factor, if you are plugging into an amp or other system.

So it comes down to whether the sound quality is that superior.

Has anyone done an A/B comparison (I suppose you'd have to try an unmodded against a modded ipod)?

 

[Chef Medeski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink ok guys, but there is a HUGE cost difference here: pocketdock (or sik ram din or Turbodock) are all less than $30 and the iMOd is what, $200 (or more)? I don't think you can argue convenience as a main factor, if you are plugging into an amp or other system. So it comes down to whether the sound quality is that superior. Has anyone done an A/B comparison (I suppose you'd have to try an unmodded against a modded ipod)?

Conveince? I think being able to not worry about breaking our PocketDock as a lot of pressure is put on it when placed on the bottom. If its not the that way then the controls are all backwards and that makes for an inconvience. I guess its dependent on how you set up you portable rig, but for me it would be very nice.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Has anyone done an A/B comparison (I suppose you'd have to try an unmodded against a modded ipod)?

Yes, I did. I have 2 60GB iPod Photos, one with the mod and one without. The iMod line out is more transparent by a noticable margin, has better bass, and a more extended and smoother treble. It's not hard to tell the difference.

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab Yes, I did. I have 2 60GB iPod Photos, one with the mod and one without. The iMod line out is more transparent by a noticable margin, has better bass, and a more extended and smoother treble. It's not hard to tell the difference.

Fair enough. What is/was the cost of the mod?

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef Medeski Conveince? I think being able to not worry about breaking our PocketDock as a lot of pressure is put on it when placed on the bottom. If its not the that way then the controls are all backwards and that makes for an inconvience. I guess its dependent on how you set up you portable rig, but for me it would be very nice.

I meant portablitily/transportablilty more than anything else. Yes, the pocket dock can get loose -- I use the sikram din for portable. But the pocket dock is fine for stationary use.

Also, ironically, the iMod takes away the convenience factor of being able to use unamped headphones (unless you have them drill a hole in the back for the cord to come through).

 

[gratefulshrink]

Last question:

Can it be done on a 3G scroll wheel?

 

[raisin]

Excuse my Rip Van Winkle question, but i was under the impression that the 3g lineout was un-amped- has someone confirmed this circuitutious circuit trace for the line out?

 

[bahamaman]

I am *this* close to pulling the trigger on a new 4th gen iPod w/ the Red Wine Audio mod.

While I am satisfied that it would offer a noticeable step up in terms of sound, my concern revolves around what would happen in case the iPod turned out to be defective. Say a hard drive goes bad on the iPod and I have to send it in to Apple for repairs. First, would the mods void the warranty?

Second, what if Apple just elected to replace the unit and trashed the defective one? There goes $200 down the drain. Or, would I first send it back to Vinnie to undo the mods and then send it in?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Can anyone give me any assurances on these concerns?

 

[Skylab]

Yep, the mod (which is $200 btw) clearly voids the warranty. If your iPod were to die you could send it to somewhere like iPodMechanic.com, but the repair would cost money. I have seen Vinnie from RWA post that he would help fix as iModded iPod that developed a problem, but I have no idea what his skill depth in this area is.

 

[Chef Medeski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab Yes, I did. I have 2 60GB iPod Photos, one with the mod and one without. The iMod line out is more transparent by a noticable margin, has better bass, and a more extended and smoother treble. It's not hard to tell the difference.

May I ask what amp and headphone combo you use?

For fixing the iPod, I think even if Vinnie can fix it. It would cost a lot of money for parts such as Harddrives. I think its a good idea to due this mod on an unwarranted model. Plus, I usually find that after 4-5 months the iPod stops developing problems.

. Call me crazy, I replaced 3 iPod, but I've kept this one for nearly 8 months with no issues. My only objection to upgrading to a 5G is that I will most likely have to replace it a couple of times before it starts working like its supposed to. However, I have heard that iPod continaully get less prone to breaking as time goes on.

 

[solvexyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef Medeski May I ask what amp and headphone combo you use? For fixing the iPod, I think even if Vinnie can fix it. It would cost a lot of money for parts such as Harddrives. I think its a good idea to due this mod on an unwarranted model. Plus, I usually find that after 4-5 months the iPod stops developing problems. . Call me crazy, I replaced 3 iPod, but I've kept this one for nearly 8 months with no issues. My only objection to upgrading to a 5G is that I will most likely have to replace it a couple of times before it starts working like its supposed to. However, I have heard that iPod continaully get less prone to breaking as time goes on.

I have used my iPod for over a year, and never had any problem. In fact, I was hoping it has problem because I spend big money on a 3 year third part warrantee because I heard iPod is easily broken. If my iPod is broken, I think I can expect a replacement with a 5th Gen iPod.

Anyway, I think iPod is way more stable than other brand. I think if you want to get the iMod, maybe get an used iPod, and then send them in for the mod.