[Tonhovsk]

I have made interesting discoveries by testing several earpads on my Sony MDR-CD350, my first quality headphone. They are from 1994, the original ear cushions are long gone.

It was a surprise to realize how the cushions influence the final sound quality of the headphone. We don't think about these things, but the sound we hear from the headphone depends entirely on the earpads in use. In other words, two different earpads can promote differences in all sound aspects of the music, including soundstage, quantity and quality of bass and treble, tonal balance, etc.

Thinking about it, I ask the question: how is a quality headphone designed? What comes first, the speaker or the earpad? That is, the fine tuning is done on the speaker, given a certain earpad, or the opposite?

Does anyone have experience in this matter?

 

[bigshot]

There's an optimal distance from the ears that designers use. If you shift closer or further, it will change, but probably not in a good way. They don't tune cans using the pads. They do that with the drivers. And they do that from the optimal position on the ears.

 

[Bytor123]

It's interesting, though, that pads (and 'ear tips' for IEM's) make such difference (see various posts, too numerous to mention) on the 'sound quality' of headphones and in ear monitors. I've always found it fascinating that an expensive headphone can be 'improved' by the addition of a 'bit of something' in between the driver and the ear (or wherever said 'something' is placed).

 

[VNandor]

I think tuning a product to fit my preferences better is different from actually improving a product. The first one is fairly easy to do since most headphones doesn't come with my personal preferences (or practically anyone's for that matter) in mind. The second one is harder to do unless someone thinks improving a headphone is synonymous to making it more likeable for themselves.

 

[bigshot]

Yeah, manufacturers are looking to hit a range of preferences, not fine tuning for a specific one. And fit and comfort are the primary purpose of pads. If they alter the sound a tiny bit, that isn’t important if the end result is still within the goal tolerances.

There’s a misconception that “perfect” sounding transducers is the goal, but everyone has different shaped heads and different tastes. Every person has their own idea of “perfect”. The differences in sound signature because of individual preferences dwarfs those created by velvet pads vs leather or stiff vs soft.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned about audiophiles, it’s that general consensus isn’t a good thing to rely on. There’s a lot of blatantly untrue lies that many many audiophiles believe to be true. There is an organized program of disinformation underway. It’s orchestrated by manufacturers who write sales pitch that twists the truth to give their product an edge in the market. In some cases, the twist on the truth is more like a tourniquet. Caveat emptor. Be skeptical and do your own research. Don’t rely on advertorial.

 

[dazzerfong]

They don't tune cans using the pads. They do that with the drivers. And they do that from the optimal position on the ears.

You have to tune with pads, or you get an extremely divergent response. That's due to driver depth as you initially described, but also due to the different reflections because of the material.

M50x. Credit Oratory1990.

It's also the reason you see hybrid pads: leather on the inside but velour on the outside. Leather inherently has more of a damping effect on headphones.

 

[bigshot]

Yes, but what I said is That they don’t swap pads to tune the sound. They tune the transducer

 

[dazzerfong]

Yes, but what I said is That they don’t swap pads to tune the sound. They tune the transducer

Yes they do!

They design and tune both at the same time. That's why different leather materials exist. That's also why tilted pads exist. Manufacturers also use pads to damper peaks (to an extent). In addition to the pad, the enclosure is also very important - that one affects resonances a lot too.

It's not like the higher-ups give the engineers a certain pad, and then the engineers design around the pad.

It's the same thing with earphones - different tips have different resonances. Wide bore vs narrow bore affect bass substantially.

 

[bigshot]

Well I was in on a the beta testing of high end headphones. I can tell you how it was handled there. We were communicating directly with the lead designer. Our first round of evaluations were about sound quality and involved stock pads. After we reported on that, the designer said he made a couple of tweaks to the transducers for himself and sent out a revised sample, but it sounded exactly the same to all of us.

Then when that round was done, they turned to things like clamping pressure, comfort over long listening sessions and that sort of thing. They gave us two sets of pads, but they never asked us about sound quality after the first round. In fact, the designer said he really didn't care which one ended up being used because they were the same to him. He was only concerned with the distance between the ear and the transducer, and that was the same with both. Some people preferred one kind of pad and some the other, so they ended up sending out the cans with both sets of pads.

Review sites later measured slight differences between the two, and of course audiophiles claimed "night and day" differences between them, but I didn't notice any difference at all. The measurements were probably just unique to whatever dummy head they used or how the cans sat on it during the two tests. Assuming two different pads hold the cans at the required distance, I really think individuals' head and ear shapes make more difference than the pads. The transducers are pointed straight down the ear canal. That is what matters.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Yes, but what I said is That they don’t swap pads to tune the sound. They tune the transducer

You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Yes they do!

They design and tune both at the same time. That's why different leather materials exist. That's also why tilted pads exist. Manufacturers also use pads to damper peaks (to an extent). In addition to the pad, the enclosure is also very important - that one affects resonances a lot too.

It's not like the higher-ups give the engineers a certain pad, and then the engineers design around the pad.

It's the same thing with earphones - different tips have different resonances. Wide bore vs narrow bore affect bass substantially.

Correct! Many manufacturers tune their headphones this way and even create multiple earpad styles/types/materials to fine tune the sound based on the subjective preferences of the buyers.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Well I was in on a the beta testing of high end headphones. I can tell you how it was handled there. We were communicating directly with the lead designer. Our first round of evaluations were about sound quality and involved stock pads. After we reported on that, the designer said he made a couple of tweaks to the transducers for himself and sent out a revised sample, but it sounded exactly the same to all of us.

Then when that round was done, they turned to things like clamping pressure, comfort over long listening sessions and that sort of thing. They gave us two sets of pads, but they never asked us about sound quality after the first round. In fact, the designer said he really didn't care which one ended up being used because they were the same to him. He was only concerned with the distance between the ear and the transducer, and that was the same with both. Some people preferred one kind of pad and some the other, so they ended up sending out the cans with both sets of pads.

Review sites later measured slight differences between the two, and of course audiophiles claimed "night and day" differences between them, but I didn't notice any difference at all. The measurements were probably just unique to whatever dummy head they used or how the cans sat on it during the two tests. Assuming two different pads hold the cans at the required distance, I really think individuals' head and ear shapes make more difference than the pads. The transducers are pointed straight down the ear canal. That is what matters.

I don’t care how much you know about speakers. When you talk about headphones, you sound like the quintessential poster child for Dunning-Kruger. You have one damn experience as a beta tester and then use that solitary experience to make a sweeping generalization about all headphone manufacturers/creators. And you masquerade here in the sound science forum spitting platitudes about objectivity and double-blind testing and sighted-test bias blah blah blah. And all the while you base your absurdly broad generalizations on your personal, subjective experiences.

You are a superhero. And your superhuman power is hypocrisy.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I purchased the Sony CD-870 headphones around 1996? I had them as my only home headphones until 2006. So for me then a 10 year run was normal. I still have the CD-870 headphones but have noted how much my taste has changed? They actually have a fairly rolled off and non-detailed treble response, yet I truly loved them for 10 years, simply not knowing any better.

Head-Fi is the same as many things in life where nativity is bliss. I did note that slowly the pads had the fake leather material finally shed off. The result was a cloth like pad, that while still comfortable caused a loss of air-tight fit, degrading the sound. The original bass could be achieved by pushing and compressing the cups against your ears.

Your right in a sense that pads make a difference. Yet in reality everything makes a difference. The cable, the amp, the drivers, the pads, the song files, everything can change the sound.

Those hippy freaks at Woodstock enjoyed an alternative chemical brain state which affected how they perceived the music and concert reality.

Science is a process of isolating the variables and discovering small processes which change sound. Just the fact that headphone pads create an individual fit that offers a variable in tune; is just a single aspect.

 

[dazzerfong]

Well I was in on a the beta testing of high end headphones. I can tell you how it was handled there. We were communicating directly with the lead designer. Our first round of evaluations were about sound quality and involved stock pads. After we reported on that, the designer said he made a couple of tweaks to the transducers for himself and sent out a revised sample, but it sounded exactly the same to all of us.

Then when that round was done, they turned to things like clamping pressure, comfort over long listening sessions and that sort of thing. They gave us two sets of pads, but they never asked us about sound quality after the first round. In fact, the designer said he really didn't care which one ended up being used because they were the same to him. He was only concerned with the distance between the ear and the transducer, and that was the same with both. Some people preferred one kind of pad and some the other, so they ended up sending out the cans with both sets of pads.

Review sites later measured slight differences between the two, and of course audiophiles claimed "night and day" differences between them, but I didn't notice any difference at all. The measurements were probably just unique to whatever dummy head they used or how the cans sat on it during the two tests. Assuming two different pads hold the cans at the required distance, I really think individuals' head and ear shapes make more difference than the pads. The transducers are pointed straight down the ear canal. That is what matters.

Awesome, except I literally posted evidence that the pad material and shape affected bass response by up to 10 dB! For some more 'evidence' of the impact earpads have on sound, here's some discussion on the venerable HD600:

https://dekoniaudio.com/frequency-response-curve-new-dekoni-sennheiser-hd600-pads/

That being said, it depends on the type of headphone: open headphones are less affected by pad design than closed ones.

I really think individuals' head and ear shapes make more difference than the pads.

Good thing what you think is refuted very easily. Material of the pad makes a big difference in reflections. Pad angle also affects how much of your own HRTF contributes to the sound.

The transducers are pointed straight down the ear canal. That is what matters.

If that's the case, why do headphones bother with venting?

Out of curiosity, got the headphone you're talking about?

 

[bfreedma]

Yes, but what I said is That they don’t swap pads to tune the sound. They tune the transducer

Not correct. Both the transducer and pad work together to tune sound. Some companies go as far as offering different pads to enable further tuning for personal preference. ZMF comes to mind.

Pad material,angle and depth are significant elements of headphone design/tuning.

edit: by the time you beta test headphones, the primary engineering and tuning is already long completed. Oppo wasn’t looking for beta testers to send them back to the design phase, just to enable very minor tuning.