How does the Warranty work in the US, legally speaking? Can a producer refuse to offer it?

[Giogio]

@DivaFonda
,
I do not use any social media and I am not into bombarding them nor am I asking you guys to do that. Actually, like ProtegeManiac said, it is better if they do not become aware of this thread, to avoid that they change the info on the website and then claim we lie.
And to be clear, this is not something personal. I do not feel in war with them and do not need to bring them down, nor I wish any "revenge". As a reviewer I am indignant and shocked for how low they went with their behaviour, but as a person I could not care less if they send me a replacement or not. Their HP is one of the worst sounding among almost 120 tested. I requested a replacement only because the seller refused the return, and once I am forced to keep this thing I at least wanted to be able to test also the Bass Boost, which is the only function not working in my unit.
If I do not get the replacement I do not test the bass boost, who cares. From how they sound without Bass Boost I can already say that with Bass Boost they must be only more horrible.

I am now only speaking as a reviewer concerned about correctly informing people about A-Audio and their product.
The reason why I asked you to give a feedback about what you (dont) find on their website is not to get the replacement but have a way to prove what I will write in my Article, in case they will change the website and say I am lying.

But thanks for the enthusiastic support

About the money, they are making a 40% off. Their price was much higher two months ago, so I bought elsewhere (still for more than the price you mention). And you should add shipping to EU, Custom costs, and 100 Euro of international phone calls from a Mobile Phone to request a Test Unit, being asked to call again and again and again and given the illusion that I would sooner or later be connected to somebody, being left often MINUTES waiting, once in a very rude way, while I was explaining who I am and why I was calling and I had just said "I am calling from a mobile phone from EU, which is probably costing me a lot, so I would appreciate if you could connect me with somebody of PR or with Luis of CS or with Mr. Jacovelli or anybody related to Test Units" and he said "ok hold a moment" and left me waiting 3 long minutes and came back with a "so you were saying?".
This is the kind of treatment I had to swallow, plus some sarcastic comments and an unfriendly tone.
They even refused to give me any precise email of a person in charge, I was asked to write to the general emails on their website, although I told them that I had done it dozen of times and received NO answer at all.
And all this lost of time and money for NOTHING, because when I finally was able to find elsewhere the Email of this Luis Rivera Head of CS, he told me that they do not issue any Test Unit any more since one year. I will tell more about this later, as it is another incredible and absurd thing.

@ruthieandjohn
, thanks. I am ok anyway, the painful part was the contact with them, this last episode is just annoying, nothing more.

John, you make a list of 5 points and you start it saying that you disagree with the fact that the situation is unreasonable, but in all your numbered points you confirmed each single thing I have said, so, with what exactly are you disagreeing?
The only point where you seem to disagree with what I say is your point 1 about the placement of the Warranty Card, which was not the main subject of this thread.
Yes of course the Card is there, legally speaking. But on a more "common sense" and realistic talking, let's be honest, you know well that if there is a time-limit and the ONLY place where people are informed of this is a Warranty Card, they should put that well visible, where Warranty Cards are typically to be found. On 120 Headphones this is THE ONLY ONE where the Warranty Card was in the pocket with the cables!
Warranty Cards are always (or at least in the 120 HPs tested) placed either with the other papers (Manuals etc) or loose above/under the HP, so when you take the HP you will see them.
I have ton of cables, I can spend months without ever opening the pocket with cables on new HPs.

Anyway, as said, this is not my main point.
My main point was and is the refusal of the Warranty with the excuse of a not authorised dealer.
I wrote to the Head of their CS, not to "anybody", just to be clear. I had had already a long interchange of Emails with him about Test Units in the past, so he knew all the situation and was already informed of all what I had to go through. He was also already informed (BEFORE the expiration of the 30 days to register the product) that I had received a defective unit.
In this occasion he wrote me that they only honour the warranty if the unit is purchased from an authorised dealer and that the seller where I bought it is not such.

Now, I am not objecting that they request to purchase only from authorised dealers. I am objecting that they do NOT request it! It is NOT requested anywhere! The only place in the world where this is to be read is in the Email which they sent me AFTER my purchase. HOW exactly should anybody know it if they do not write it? Does this seem reasonable to you?
I know that a few other Companies also request to purchase from Authorised dealers, but they WRITE IT.

About point 5, I totally agree, and I've always done and will do so.
Indeed I've reviewed positively products where I had a bad contact with the company and negatively products where I had a good contact.
And this will always be so.
On this particular case there are only two companies, among all the almost 120 HPs recently tested, of which I can say that I had a very bad contact and the product was also bad or very bad.
A-Audio is one of them.

About commenting on the company, it's not always needed and I'll not do it always, but I believe that the way a company treats people is important. It is for me, it is for other people.
And if I have had a particularly good or bad contact I'll do write it in my reviews.
It will never influence how I review the product though.

 

[Giogio]

 
I do know that companies have different warranty terms based on where the item is sold, and sometimes it's the local distributor that will provide warranty support. In addition, some manufacturers will publicize a list of authorized or unauthorized dealers on their site. As far as unauthorized dealers go, you see a lot of eBay sellers and third-party sellers on Amazon.
 
I'm the type of guy who has to look at anything and everything in the electronics box, but I also see why you didn't - you're conducting testing for a specific purpose, and keeping a bunch of cases and carry bags around makes it harder to figure out where a specific headphone is within your work area.

 Thanks for the info.
 
Yes, exactly. when I review I only open the thing with the cables in the moment I must take pictures (generally right before returning).
Anyway, as said, this is not the main point, they can say that you are supposed to look everywhere and period. We know they are not making it quite right, we know the card could and probably should be in another location, we know this info very probably should be also on their Terms and Conditions. But they put this card and they will say it's enough.
I am even sure that given the kind of people they showed to be, they will say that customers are supposed to have Superman eyes and be able to read what's written on the microscopic image of the warranty card on their website, which can't be clicked to be enlarged.
 
Nice to read that most sellers don't ask for such a thing, it also makes no sense to me.
Anyway in my info it is not illegal to ask for this in the case of a limited warranty.
But I still have my reserves about the way they organise it.
 
About the Authorised Dealers, do you think it is ok that a Company does NOT provide a list of Authorised Dealers and does NOT write anywhere that they will only honour the warranty from purchases made by specific sellers?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Did you find any reference to authorised dealers or registration time limit on their website?

It would be cool if you can give a feedback on that.

 

Just what I mentioned regarding their note on reviewing fine print.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Filed a complaint to FTC and chatted with an operative who told me: "We operate on a national level, which means we must have numerous complaints before our attorneys and investigators proceed. We do not assist in getting you a replacement".

Yeah. US Consumers Rights.

 

My question was then "who can assist me?"

They: "You will have to dispute this with the company."

Me: "And who can help me in this process, if the Company refuses to honour the warranty?"

They: "I apologize I have no information regarding who can assist you in this. We only assist in filing the complaints and direct you to contact the company to dispute this."

 

Do people in the US normally file complaints before having anything to complain about? If I complain is because I have contacted the Company, and I was given a negative.

 

Nuts, they really rely on free market regulation vis a vis the legal system, ie if the company refuses to honor anything you hire a lawyer and then if you win the judgment typically includes having them pay the legal fees. That said, it's not simply that the US government on the whole totally don't give a crap about consumer rights, as this system works well enough within the US, especially when by their calculations smaller corrective costs here and there are cheaper than losing litigation. 

 

Just a question though - if I had purchased anything from within the EU made by a firm in the EU, but I'm not physically there either, would member governments have clamped down on erring companies based on an email from the other side of the world? Because my amp is busted, and while I am not filing a complaint about it, it will cement my decision to get another amp from there. Not because I think it will bust something but given the great customer care so far diagnosing the amp when it first busted a power supply thanks to a surge and even now with something else broken (short of me spending $150 just shipping it to and fro) plus how regulation works, I'd basically be voting for that system by spending my money there.

 

[Giogio]

ProtegeManiac, I'm afraid I really didn't understand what you wanted to say.
Anyway I didn't mean to make a USA vs EU case, nor I think EU is perfect (far from).
I do think EU consumers protection and rights are generally speaking on a higher standard than in the USA (includind privacy rules and food rules and corporation vs consumers stuff) but if you disagree I'm OK with that and I've no interest in convincing you of anything.

My bad if I started talking of USA, but now before the thread derails I think it's better to concentrate on a-audio, which is the real subject here, and I doubt anybody can say that what they are doing is OK.

Anyway thanks for the polite conversation, I'll be happy to interchange opinions about that privately. I'm open to new information and to change my opinion.

 

[mikaveli06]

I am confised as to where you purchased from? Have you contacted them for the return? [Maybe i missed this info]

But if item is defective, you should not review it then. Maybe it sounds so horrible because its defective.

 

[Giogio]

@mikaveli06, Yes I have told it already, I had contacted the seller.
Anyway, I repeat, this thread is not about the seller. I do not review sellers.
I have opened it just to understand if what A-Audio is doing is legal or not, so that I can write a more fair review.
In the EU, refusing to honour the Warranty for some not-written rule is illegal and immoral and there is NO possible excuse for it, PERIOD.
I am trying here to understand if in the US this is legal. And I am doing it not for my personal case but for my work as a reviewer.
 
I as a person am not angry with A-Audio at all, I am eventually angry with the seller because he forces me to keep a HP which I do not like. A-Audio just refuses to change it with a fully functional one, and this refusal does not affect me as a person in any way, because I could not care less about having a fully functional bad sounding HP.
A-Audio's decision only affects me as a reviewer, because it does not give me the chance to test the Bass Boost.
And to answer to your wrong supposition, my unit is fully functional in everything but that one thing: the bass boost can't be activated, so I can perfectly test and review their normal sound, and their ANC, but not their Bass Boost sound.
Somebody made me notice that maybe A-Audio is refusing to replace my unit because I told them that I did not like the Icon, and they may want to take advantage of this situation by making people (like you) think that my unit sounds bad because of the defect.
Well, I am not into these complicated 007 suppositions, but I must admit that if A-Audio was a transparent Company they would make all possible efforts to let me test a fully functional unit, don't you think? And not only they are not making any possible effort, but they are even not honouring the Warranty. Does this seem ok to you?
 
 
Now, to put it clear, the chronological order of events was:
1) I wrote to the two Emails addresses on A-Audio's website, the sales and service ones, to request a test unit. I also wrote to their online form.
I received back an error message that the sales address was not active. From the service email and the online form I received no answer ever, in weeks, having written them several times.
2) I called A-Audio to contact somebody involved with Test Units. Beside being treated unfriendly I had to call again and again and spend a LOT of money, because I was never connected to anybody nor given any email to contact the right people. I was just suggested to write to the two emails on their website again, or to try calling again.
3) once, after much insisting, I was connected to the voice mail of Jacovelli. I left him a message with info about me and a request to contact me back. He never did.
4) once I was calling exactly in the time of the day which I was previously said it was the right moment AND day to find Jacovelli. He was not there so the guy told me "I send him an SMS asking him to contact you" (of all the many times I had called, this was the only one where I was treated fairly). Jacovelli never contacted me.
5) frustrated and running out of time because I had to make the group picture where I wanted all HPs to be together, I have searched online and found elsewhere the email address of the Head of CS, Luis Rivera.
He wrote me they do not have any Test Unit left because they had received a limited number and gave them all one year ago to several reviewers.
I told him I didn't want to be "given" anything, I only needed a HP for 2 weeks and if his Team hadn't any left he could ask Jacovelli if I can be borrowed any (even refurbished) unit for a couple of weeks.
He never again answered.
6) I gave up and bought a unit myself online, knowing that even if I could return it in case I did not like it, I would still lose international shipping (forth and back) and Custom costs. But I wanted to give you a complete comparison, and was ready to lose some money in the process if needed.
7) The unit I have received was new and completely sealed. Unfortunately on my unit the Bass Boost does not work, it wont activate. This is the only not working thing.
Being able to test their normal sound, and seeing how bad they sound, I was determined to send them back.
Therefore it would have not been fair to ask the seller to send me a replacement once I already knew I would not keep it.
So I contacted this Luis again and told him about the situation very clearly, sincerely and transparently, at the point of even admitting that I did not like the Icon enough to keep them, and that hence I could not ask the seller for a replacement.
I have sent him a picture of my Icon to prove him that I had really bought one, and I have asked him once again to please send me ANY unit for two weeks so that I could test also the Bass Boost function.
And this is where he finally revealed the truth about A-Audio and which units they send to reviewers (it's up to you to decide if you want to ever again trust any review you will read of their products):
"We’ve told you on previous e-mails we no longer issue test Samples, test samples not only go thru the listening portion or the test, but they also endure a drop-test to check the durability of the construction.     Test Samples are not final production samples, the production samples are very different as they have the final notes and changes implemented."
So, this makes of them the only Company on Earth (at least as far as I am aware) which gives to reviewers units which are specifically made to be more resistant to drop-tests and which are overall "very different" from the final units.
To the day he thinks that I can't understand that they do not have any more of these "special sample units", but the truth is that HE does not understand what I told him several times: I only review final units. Reviewing something which is not EXACTLY THE SAME of what the Customers will receive is not the way I work.
Now, if he would have said "we are not interested in your work" I would have never insisted, but he was clearly not understanding what I was asking for.
So for the last time I almost begged him to please ask Jacovelli.
He didn't answer. I wrote other two times. He never answered.
If this is the Head of CS, you know what to expect from the Tail of CS.
8) at this point I have contacted the seller and issued a return and refund within the Return Policy.
He never answered. I started researching my ways to force him to refund and I am still working on it and at this point of time don't have a final solution.
Resigned to keep a HP which I don't like, I contacted A-Audio again, the same Head of CS, Mr. Howdoyoudo (so he is called on A-Audio Website) Luis Rivera.
And here is where he told me that they do not honour the warranty if the item is not purchased from an authorised seller.
 
I hope now all is clear and you all can see what I had to go through with this untrusty Company.
By reading this chronological list of events it should be clear to you that not only their refusal of Warranty is illegal and immoral, but it is also a huge lack of respect toward somebody who, like me, had only showed the highest and most sincere interest in reviewing their HP and who had spent a HUGE amount of time and money to do that.
I mean, refusing to honour the warranty is ALWAYS a very bad thing. But refusing it in this case is an even worse thing, and shows which kind of human values they have.
You now please tell me if this is for you a correct, human, professional and trusty Company.
 
One single positive note: if they can treat a reviewer like this, it means they make no difference between people. Reviewers or normal customers, all are treated the same: like $h!t
 
And, @ruthieandjohn, do you still think that Jacovelli doesnt know anything about this already?
I think that after having received my voice message, the SMS of his guy, and surely many reports of his Head of CS, he definitely knows.
I had also written many times to the general email, and unless Mr.Howdoyoudo is the only member of the CS, somebody else must have read my emails too.
And with all the times I have called and specifically asked for Jacovelli, I doubt he is not yet informed.
Anyway, I will do what you suggested.