[DarkScythe]

Hello everyone,
 
I'd like to start off by saying I hate Head-Fi. Or at least my wallet does.
Anyway, I've been looking for another set of headphones since I heard a friend's ATH-W1000X and loved them. Unfortunately, it's tough to justify such a high price, and I went looking for something cheaper that sounded close.
Unfortunately, it's really hard to figure out how headphones sound since it's so subjective, and people throw out completely conflicting reviews all the time. I need to figure out if I would be happy/happier with anything else though, before I splurge on them.
 
I went to J&R since I'm in the city, and they had a couple high-end headphones to try out.
However, all I had available was my mobile setup - an iPod and a Fiio E5 amp. Hardly enough to drive most of them very well.
That said, for now, I'm looking at Beyer's DT-880 Pro and the AKG-701 as "interesting" candidates. I also tried out the Denon D5000, Audio Technica W5000 and Grado RS-2 (RS-1 was too expensive) but ended up ruling them out. Really though, I don't think 320kbps MP3 and a Fiio E5 were really enough to bring out their full potential.
 
Therein lies the problem.. How do I effectively test all these headphones without being able to take them home and plug them into my Matrix, which should be more capable of driving them?
 
One thing I thought about was HeadRoom and the like, who offer a 30-day money back guarantee.
I believe one would be able to purchase a headphone, try it out for 30 days on their home rig, and return it if it's not to their liking.
 
But.. how many people actually do this?
I feel like I would be ripping off the company, or otherwise taking advantage of and/or abusing their policy by buying with the intent of returning from the very beginning.
It seems this guarantee was intended to be a safeguard for people who honestly made a mistake with a purchase, not for people to simply try something out for a few weeks. I'd imagine HeadRoom and the like would eventually wind up with tons of "open box" items from all the returns.
 
Is this kind of "buy and try" generally frowned upon, or does everyone do it anyway?
 
The alternatives seem to be local Head-Fi meets, but the timing of the next NYC one is terrible for me, and it's quite far to travel to. There may also be a way to set up a "swap" with other members here, but then I'd lose my "reference" headphones.
 
So, how do you guys trial headphones? Should I look into alternative methods, or would I be relatively "safe" by utilizing a company's money-back guarantee?
 
Thanks.

 

[kingtz]

Does JR really not have a decent amplifier setup that you can demo the headphones with? For a store that sells high end headphones, I would find this rather surprising.
 
I have actually never demoed headphones. The closest I ever came was when I strolled into Guitar Center and had them open up a box of SRH840s for me to look at and touch. The guy offered to hook them up to some music for me to listen to, but I didn't want to, as it'd be pointless without at least some burn in. But the fact was that even a place like Guitar Center offered to hook up the headphones to some music.

 

[MCC]

I've never heard any of my headphones before buying them. I just do some extensive research and buy based on reviews.

 

[Thecoolguy]

I've never heard any of my headphones before buying them. I just do some extensive research and buy based on reviews.

This. I don't really see a problem with taking advantage of headrooms moneyback guarantee though. If they didn't want people to do that, the wouldn't have the policy.

 

[DarkScythe]

J&R does have some music they can plug into for you, but unlike B&H, they're not hard-wired into the wall. J&R has a somewhat new, very small display of headphones that are just sitting there and they allow you to plug them into your own source.
Unfortunately, there are 2 problems with that. First, I have no idea what kind of amplifiers they use. The wall-rack headphones simply come out of a wall, with the cable threaded through a hole, and while they can plug it into something you can physically see at the display counter, it's just some tiny, unmarked black box with 5 TRS jacks. The other problem is I'm unfamiliar with the music they play, so it'd be very tough to judge anything with it.
 
As far as buying based on reviews, that's what I did when I got my Shures, but it was very tough because of all the conflicting reviews. Some reviewers said it had too much bass, some said it had very little bass. It was very dependent on what type of music people liked and what kind of headphones everyone preferred. It was easier with my HD600's, since my friend owns the 580's and I had extensive listening with them. For headphones where it's very easy to get an agreeable set of reviews from everyone, I suppose I can go with reviews to get an idea of the sound. But what about extremely polarizing headphones like the K701? Reviews for that headphone are absolutely all over the place, with reviews outright contradicting each other.
 
This is why I want to try them out first, so I can use it on my equipment, and my familiar music, with my ears, so I don't need to figure out who's description is closer to what I would hear.
 
That said, I'm aware I could do this with the money back guarantees, but it just seems a little dishonest to do that, don't you think?

 

[rawrster]

 
Quote:

Does JR really not have a decent amplifier setup that you can demo the headphones with? For a store that sells high end headphones, I would find this rather surprising.
 
I have actually never demoed headphones. The closest I ever came was when I strolled into Guitar Center and had them open up a box of SRH840s for me to look at and touch. The guy offered to hook them up to some music for me to listen to, but I didn't want to, as it'd be pointless without at least some burn in. But the fact was that even a place like Guitar Center offered to hook up the headphones to some music.

Why would it be surprising? I went to B&H once and asked them what the setup for their headphones was. The guy told me it was a clip+ with the signal split 4 ways and then amplified with some rolls amp.

 

[DarkScythe]

Lol, I knew B&H had those Rolls amps since they sit up on top of those shelves, but I never knew it was run off a Clip+.
 
Anyway, I forgot to mention but I did ask the lady at the counter if they had any amplifiers I could borrow (I mean, to sell high end headphones, I'd assume you need to have some amplifiers too..) but she said they didn't have any. That's why I had to use my Fiio E5 instead.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I listen to stuff at meets, which isn't a guarantee because it's noisy and a short listen, but you get a pretty good idea.  There's a lot of stuff I have heard at meets that I don't even like enough to listen to for more than a couple minutes.  And there's no point in buying that gear.  So you can really narrow it down.  Then there's the reviews, and you can get a pretty good idea of whether you'll like something or not if you have a reference.  Like if a reviewer compares a headphone to your HD600, that gives you a good idea.  Plus, you can get a sense of reveiwer's preferences if you've read them, for example, liking a headphone that you don't like at all, or vice versa.  I know skylab and I both have similar preferences for treble response.  So when he says a headphone is too bright, I know it's going to be too bright for me too.   I don't have much interest in listening to the new Sony Z1000 now because of his impressions.  Not because I trust him blindly, no one should, but because I've read enough about what he likes and dislikes to know that too much treble for him will likely be too much treble for me.
 
Then, you can buy used.  I've bought all my headphones used.  If you resell it, you only loose the original shipping cost.  So that winds up being the same as if you traded with someone.  If you don't want to own used gear, you could still buy used stuff to get a feel for what you like, then sell it all and purchase your favorite new.  I've seen a lot of head-fiers go on buying binges when they first come here, they buy a whole bunch of stuff used, then have a big sale when they find what they want.  I've bought and sold a lot of headphones.  It's fun.
 
edit- I just thought I'd add that I think the expectation on headroom's and TTVJ's return policy is that you've done your homework before you buy.  If you have done the work to have good reason to believe you will like a headphone, then I think it's ok to return it if you don't like it.  I don't, however think it's nice to them if you just buy say 3 headphones with the intention of returning 2 of them, because you haven't done enough homework to know if you will like the HD650 or K701 more.  IMO you should at least know what sound you are looking for before you buy new and return.  If you don't know whether you want an airy, light, treble sound vs a lush, rich sound, then you should buy used to get a better idea.  In other words, I think the return policy is made to cover a mistake, but not made to pay for you to figure out what you want.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

 
I don't, however think it's nice to them if you just buy say 3 headphones with the intention of returning 2 of them, because you haven't done enough homework to know if you will like the HD650 or K701 more. 

 
X2 - restocking carries a cost to retailers and those cans cannot be sold as new any more !
 
I just buy them and if I don't like them I sell them, normally there is something about them I like, which is why I have 18 pairs of proper headphones...stupid really, must sell some of these.
 


 

 

[Tiemen]

This is what I do:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Then, you can buy used.  I've bought all my headphones used.  If you resell it, you only loose the original shipping cost.  So that winds up being the same as if you traded with someone.  If you don't want to own used gear, you could still buy used stuff to get a feel for what you like, then sell it all and purchase your favorite new.  I've seen a lot of head-fiers go on buying binges when they first come here, they buy a whole bunch of stuff used, then have a big sale when they find what they want.  I've bought and sold a lot of headphones.  It's fun.

 

[bangraman]

Part of me wishes we had those relaxed return options here. Most suppliers are adamant about not accepting back open-box items unless it's faulty, especially for headphones 'for hygeine issues'... which is, I guess, actually fair enough. 
 
 
So I buy all of the headphones I'm interested in. Relatively few of them on the used forums here, which means that I'm usually the one taking the hefty hit when I sell them on here or elsewhere. It has been a looooooooooooong ride, with the husks of many, many headphones left in my wake.

 

[DarkScythe]

I'd imagine meets are fairly noisy as well, but at least you would probably have a better setup than an iPod and Fiio, lol.
That said, this was exactly why I went to J&R and B&H - to try out the various headphones without having to purchase any of them. In this way, I did narrow down the field quite a bit.
The main problem I have with researching sound is that very few people on these boards listen to the type of music I listen to, so it's very hard to gauge how they'd sound. I think I've seen all of 2 reviews that may be applicable to me, which isn't quite enough.
In either case, I don't think it was as extreme as comparing a K701 with an HD650; they're completely different sound signatures. The DT-880 and K701 sounded much more similar, since I was looking for an approximation of the W1000X. The only issue I had with them was sibilance, which could be attributed to several factors that I want to rule out.
 
However, I do completely agree with your position about the return policy being there to cover mistakes, as I mentioned in my previous posts.
I suppose buying used may be an option as well, though it's usually tough to sell the headphones for the same price you bought them at, I think.

 

[matthewh133]

I have to buy used. We don't have a decent headphone supplier here in Australia. Actually, that's a lie, we have ONE, but it's on the other side of the country and very expensive ($249 for M50). We don't have the luxury of any trial period stores either, so I just have to buy used, sell if I don't like. Rinse, repeat. It's ok I guess, but not ideal.

 

[wenhui]

Don't really "test" them out as I fear hygiene issues.. My friends think its weird but I don't really mind.. I got 1 of the last laughs when after trying a pair of headphones their ears started to itch awhile later lol.
 
I just take a leap of faith and buy a pair that I think would sound enjoyable/fit my music taste. It helps a lot of you don't think of headphones sounding as "good" or "bad", and instead thinking that each pair sounds different.