[texanater]

   

I'd wager the Parasound's headphone output has a high output impedance. Does the HD600 work fine with it? If it does but the Classic sucks then that's most likely it. Parasound's site doesn't even list any specs for the headphone output, that tells you a lot by saying nothing - meaning it seems to suggest they didn't really care too much about that part of the circuit.

 

Also there's one more thing you have to be wary of other than output impedance: GAIN. Some amps disliked because the too-high gain makes the volume adjustment too sensitive, and in some cases can't even get past the range on the potentiometer where there is still channel imbalance. The Rega Ear and the first MF V-Can are the prime examples of this.

 

In any case, if you want one that you can just easily hook up to your computer and might work with your smartphone as a transportable system (ie if you go on a trip you can take this, then when you're back in the hotel you can use the system), try the Ibasso D-Zero MkII.

 

If you just need one that can be integrated into your main system, try the Schiit Magni2.

I sold the HD600s and before I got the Parasound.  And the Focals sound very good with the Parasound as the do with the Audioquest, but it is a whole other world with the P-51.  I'm certainly not complaining about the Parasound, it is a heck of a value!  

I don't think gain will be too big of a problem.  The Focals are not too sensitive to volume adjustments.  I have a pair of JVC FX850s that I can almost not use with the P-51 for the very reason you bring up.  The Beyerdynamics almost have to have the volume up completely and the Focals are right in the middle of the road.

A lot of it might just be my personal taste.  The HD600s never really did it for me, they were just too polite.  The characteristics that really engage me musically are Tonal color, articulation, dynamics and voice separation followed by detail.  The HD600s lacked tonal color and articulation for my tastes.  Don't get me wrong, I can easily see why they have such a strong following and if they were the only headphone I could ever use again I would still be happy, but I am happier with my Beyerdynamics DT880s and the Focals.  

 

[DCofficehack]

How would I go about figuring out which desk top or portable AMP would pair well with my 32 Ohms Beyers?

 

[texanater]

Yes, the Valhalla is really designed for high impedance headphones. I only brought up the Valhalla to illustrate that even it can manage a respectable damping factor for 32 Ohm headphones. It won't necessarily pair well (or be cost effective).

Personally, I don't see too much point to the Asgard 2 at this point. It manages more power into 300 and 600 Ohms, but a Magni 2 Uber has all the features (preamp outs, gain switch) at a lower price. Unless you're crazy about class A amplification, you might as well spend less and get the smaller chassis. Just my opinion.

I like where you are going but what about sound quality?  Are there any good sq comparisons between the two?  I've found a few comparisons but nothing yet that is exactly what I am curious about.  I notice the asgard has 2 db greater s/n, you might hear that.
 
Thanks!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I like where you are going but what about sound quality?  Are there any good sq comparisons between the two?  I've found a few comparisons but nothing yet that is exactly what I am curious about.  I notice the asgard has 2 db greater s/n, you might hear that.
 
Thanks!

 

It's not noticeable. I only tried out the older Valhalla and even with no music playing I can't hear a background noise (although that was a meet with people conversing in hushed voies in the background).

 

In overall tone the Valhalla isn't completely like how most people would expect an OTL tube design to sound like despite the product blurb about "smoky jazz bars" since tonally it's not too far off the Asgard. It's in how it handles certain sounds - a very fast aggressive jazz track sounds even more exciting with the Asgard's relatively more neutral and powerful presentation while the Valhalla rounds out some of the sounds, making a slow intimate jazz song sound even more...well...like a slow intimate song in a smoky jazz club. These aren't even too obvious - the thing with the Valhalla was that it's meant to be neutral instead of overtly warming the sound as a whole, but its tube distortion just rounds out the notes.  

 

In any case even though the Valhalla2 does well enough with low impedance headphones, but from how I understand the blurb and some of the feedback I cam across before, it's really a lot more of "your favorite is the HD600 or T90, great! but you can also plug in your SR325 or PS500" than being specialized with them. Really the Magni2 is the most cost-effective option aside from the D-Zero MkII (and you already have the P-51 anyway). 

 

[texanater]

  How would I go about figuring out which desk top or portable AMP would pair well with my 32 Ohms Beyers?

My reading of the tea leaves is if you have a low impedance headphone paired with an amp designed for high impedance it will still sound good. Its the "fussy" factor.  It will sound even better with a properly paired amp.  The closer you can get to a 1 to 8+ ratio of amp output impedance to headphone impedance the better.  So if the headphone impedance is 32 ohms you want less than a 5 ohm output impedance from the amp.
 
For what it is worth, I have the 32 ohm DT880s to and I think they are less fussy about amping.  I can really hear a huge difference with the Focals but the DT880s were less affected.  
 
I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit magni uber.  I can let you know how the DT880s are affected by amp.  I'll just reply to this thread if you are interested. It will probably be a couple weeks.

 

[DCofficehack]

 
My reading of the tea leaves is if you have a low impedance headphone paired with an amp designed for high impedance it will still sound good. Its the "fussy" factor.  It will sound even better with a properly paired amp.  The closer you can get to a 1 to 8+ ratio of amp output impedance to headphone impedance the better.  So if the headphone impedance is 32 ohms you want less than a 5 ohm output impedance from the amp.
 
For what it is worth, I have the 32 ohm DT880s to and I think they are less fussy about amping.  I can really hear a huge difference with the Focals but the DT880s were less affected.  
 
I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit magni uber.  I can let you know how the DT880s are affected by amp.  I'll just reply to this thread if you are interested. It will probably be a couple weeks.

Hey, that would be great. I'm learning a lot there. Thank you.

 

[superjawes]

I think you'll enjoy the Magni. I was coming back to say that I can't realy comment on Asgard's SQ because I don't have one. My Valhalla does edge out the Magni 2 Uber with my HD600, but the difference is subtle, so I only fire up the tubes for pure listening sessions (I'm usually playing games).

 

[manbear]

For low impedance headphones, the most important thing is to get a quiet amp. Low impedance headphones are more sensitive to hiss. That rules out some tube amps but not all. 

Lower amp output impedance is generally "better," but I wouldn't sweat it. If the amp has a higher output impedance and your damping factor is worse than 1/8th, all that's going to happen in general is that the headphone will sound warmer. Some people will prefer it that way.

 

[Shaffer]

True but in my fiddling the Focals I've noticed they do significantly benefit from the better power amp on the P-51 in both cases.  They can be powered by portable devices but are good enough to really shine with higher end amplification.  I'm talking about sound quality not necessarily volume.  I'm not too concerned about volume.  Decades in the military and this hobby in particular have made me very sensitive to the issue of hearing loss.  The problem is most of the higher end amplification is made for the higher impedance headphones like the sennheiser HD600s.  I'm curious what kind of high quality headphone amplifiers are out there that are designed for the lower impedance headphones.

Thanks!

Take a look at Meier Audio. Good luck.

 

[tomb]

 

Yes, the Valhalla is really designed for high impedance headphones. I only brought up the Valhalla to illustrate that even it can manage a respectable damping factor for 32 Ohm headphones. It won't necessarily pair well (or be cost effective).

Personally, I don't see too much point to the Asgard 2 at this point. It manages more power into 300 and 600 Ohms, but a Magni 2 Uber has all the features (preamp outs, gain switch) at a lower price. Unless you're crazy about class A amplification, you might as well spend less and get the smaller chassis. Just my opinion.

I like where you are going but what about sound quality?  Are there any good sq comparisons between the two?  I've found a few comparisons but nothing yet that is exactly what I am curious about.  I notice the asgard has 2 db greater s/n, you might hear that.
 
Thanks!

 
Unless they changed the Valhalla significantly, the output coupling capacitors put a "fog" over the output.  This is true with any OTL amp.  It's not so noticeable with HD580/H600/HD650's and their stock cables, because people claim they have a "veil" anyway.  A Cardas cable on the Senns or a more revealing headphone (Grados) will instantly show up the fog on an OTL amp (in a direct comparison with a transformer-coupled amp).  Transformer output is much, much more transparent and it answers the entire question about what's best for a 32 ohm headphone: the output transformers are specifically designed to match up with that impedance.  Most transformer-coupled amps have a High-Z/Low-Z switch that allows you to select between low and high impedance headphones.  Typically, the low impedance selection is specifically optimized for 32 ohms, since there are so many headphones available at that impedance.
 

  For low impedance headphones, the most important thing is to get a quiet amp. Low impedance headphones are more sensitive to hiss. That rules out some tube amps but not all. 

Lower amp output impedance is generally "better," but I wouldn't sweat it. If the amp has a higher output impedance and your damping factor is worse than 1/8th, all that's going to happen in general is that the headphone will sound warmer. Some people will prefer it that way.

 
Reasonably good statement, but hiss is just as much a problem with solid-state.