[avkdh]

 
 Hi, I'm new to the whole hifi thing and recently got my first pair of headphones, I'm very happy with them, i didn't know just how much of the music I hear I was missing. Unfortunately I realised that some of my favorite albums sounded absolutely awful  with my new headphones, I'm specifically referring to the band Tool, I was very disappointed when I got my headphones and played 10.000 days, I first thought it was my source or that the headphones I had bought where not good enough. But then I heard a different album and was  happily surprised with the results (even with my modest low-midfi setup the difference was night and day with what I was used to). So I did some research online and found lost of info about the so called "loudness war" eventually realising that some of my favorite albums are very loud/compressed . 
 
So I guess my question would be is there a way to deal with loud albums to make them sound acceptable?.  Are some setups more forgiving with bad recordings?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[NA Blur]

To better enjoy low quality music or poorly mastered / produced jams I typically listen to them with just my iPod or in my car.  Those are the most forgiving sources that I have.  What you have discovered is the very reason to have a few pairs of headphones around as well as speakers.  There is music that absolutely screams the need for hi-fi and there is music that is more fun.
 
This is the primary reason many of us have several setups and headphones as well as changing our listening habits and we delve deeper into hi-fi.
 
A couple of groups that sounds lively and fun in the car for me are Negative Format and Vitro Distort.  While a few groups that sounds absolutely amazing with a hi-fi setup are Tantric and Slaid Cleaves.
 
Using a headphones with a less flat frequency response is another way to tailor your listening experience with your music.  Sometimes even the LCD-2 or Stax SR-009 will not make a track sound better or more enjoyable.  There is a headphone for each type of music that I listen to that always out performs the others when it comes to clarity and joy.  I do enjoy my Denon AH-D2000 with almost every type of music which is a huge reason why I keep them at hand.  I complimented them with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 which cover just about everything else.  When I do studio work I use my ATH-M50 headphones.  With my iPod I use some Brainwavz M2 IEMs.
 
It is a good thing that you are discovering that not all music sounds good with every headphone.  Some music is just intolerable to listen to period with most headphones.  This should start opening your ears to better produced music.

 

[plasmoic]

after receiving my ipod years ago, the first program that did its miracle was mp3gain...

 

[avkdh]

so basically lower end gear makes bad (loud) albums sound better?[size=small] [/size]

 

[daigo]

Quote:

 
 Hi, I'm new to the whole hifi thing and recently got my first pair of headphones, I'm very happy with them, i didn't know just how much of the music I hear I was missing. Unfortunately I realised that some of my favorite albums sounded absolutely awful  with my new headphones, I'm specifically referring to the band Tool, I was very disappointed when I got my headphones and played 10.000 days, I first thought it was my source or that the headphones I had bought where not good enough. But then I heard a different album and was  happily surprised with the results (even with my modest low-midfi setup the difference was night and day with what I was used to). So I did some research online and found lost of info about the so called "loudness war" eventually realising that some of my favorite albums are very loud/compressed . 
 
So I guess my question would be is there a way to deal with loud albums to make them sound acceptable?.  Are some setups more forgiving with bad recordings?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
I rarely listen to my 10,000 Days CD because it is just poorly mastered, with the bass really drowning everything out at the volume it comes at.  I'll pull up the FLAC version of the album every now and then, but it was ripped with the gain at a lower level so it is tolerable.  Really hope their next album will have better dynamics like their older CD's and LP's.
 
 

 

[Tiemen]

A warmer/ darker, more forgiving, headphone like the HD 650 and the K240 Sextett will help, while still giving a relative good sound.
 

 

[re-animator]

Quote:

 
I rarely listen to my 10,000 Days CD because it is just poorly mastered, with the bass really drowning everything out at the volume it comes at.  I'll pull up the FLAC version of the album every now and then, but it was ripped with the gain at a lower level so it is tolerable.  Really hope their next album will have better dynamics like their older CD's and LP's.
 
 

 
I think the EQ and mixing was done really well on that album, its just that they smashed the album with so much compression in the mastering stage.  The dynamic range really suffers as a result and i think that's why the bass frequencies (which would have been physically louder to begin with) end up overpowering the rest of the mix after they've been compressed.  Its not death magnetic bad, but it hurts an otherwise good-sounding album.
 
fwiw, i remember it sounding pretty good in my car.  listening to the flac on my akg702s exposes some of the faults.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

 
So I guess my question would be is there a way to deal with loud albums to make them sound acceptable?.  Are some setups more forgiving with bad recordings?  
 

It really depends on the quality of the mastering.
 
In some cases you can run it through some EQ and do some mastering tricks that will improve the dynamic range a slight bit. There are also a number of DSP plug-in's that will "extend" or "repair" the dynamic range.
 
However, the above solutions is like fixing a crack in a dam with a band-aid. In other words...the solution is not good enough.
 
Why?
 
No matter what you do to artificially expand the dynamic range, you will rarely be able to remove 100% of the inherent distortion caused by brickwalling the recordings. If you have a set-up that is forgiving then you are listening to the wrong set-up IMHO.
 

 

[MohawkUS]

Most of my music is heavily compressed during mastering unfortunately. There are two solutions to it I've found. Buy forgiving gear(hard to find stuff that has the energy for metal while being forgiving though) or go vinyl. A lot of the metal albums I listen to are mastered better on vinyl, but depending on what you listen to the reverse might be true if there is a vinyl release at all.
I disagree with the above poster that a forgiving setup is the wrong setup, matching your setup to your musical taste is very important, specs and clarity mean nothing if it makes your music unlistenable.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I disagree with the above poster that a forgiving setup is the wrong setup, matching your setup to your musical taste is very important, specs and clarity mean nothing if it makes your music unlistenable.

That's precisely what is wrong with most of the general public. They have such forgiving rigs that they don't care and don't know they should care. If they had the necessary clarity to actually notice that their music is unlistenable then maybe they would protest a bit more and change the way things are going. Instead, they are happily being fed crap and liking it in the process.
 
If you buy a steak and it tastes bad, do you proceed to slather it in A1 sauce and do it again in the future? No...you should demand the quality you deserve. Matching a set-up to be forgiving of crap mastered music is the same as harboring a fugitive after the fact...it's a crime. It's a crime against the arts.
 

 

[MohawkUS]

That's precisely what is wrong with most of the general public. They have such forgiving rigs that they don't care and don't know they should care. If they had the necessary clarity to actually notice that their music is unlistenable then maybe they would protest a bit more and change the way things are going. Instead, they are happily being fed crap and liking it in the process.
 
If you buy a steak and it tastes bad, do you proceed to slather it in A1 sauce and do it again in the future? No...you should demand the quality you deserve. Matching a set-up to be forgiving of crap mastered music is the same as harboring a fugitive after the fact...it's a crime. It's a crime against the arts.
 

I suppose there is some truth in this, but clarity and micro-details aren't what make music, its the emotion and energy in the music. I listen to a lot of lo-fi black metal and blues and I feel that recording quality good and bad adds emotionto the music. Some songs just wouldn't sound right with a studio production.

The problem lies in the mastering. Brickwalling makes everything worse and tends to mask the true feel of the music, having a forgiving setup that can remove the 'brickwall fatigue' while still being able to get the emotion out of the music is a must for someone like me.

 

[Swatcsi]

I can't even listen to poorly mastered recordings anymore, it just sounds so bad. I think I would take a well recorded 320 mp3 over a poorly recorded flac anyday.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I suppose there is some truth in this, but clarity and micro-details aren't what make music, its the emotion and energy in the music. I listen to a lot of lo-fi black metal and blues and I feel that recording quality good and bad adds emotionto the music. Some songs just wouldn't sound right with a studio production.
The problem lies in the mastering. Brickwalling makes everything worse and tends to mask the true feel of the music, having a forgiving setup that can remove the 'brickwall fatigue' while still being able to get the emotion out of the music is a must for someone like me.

Yeah...I completely understand but for me, the emotion will always come through...crappy or not. I just don't believe in compensating for someone else and their crap job. A good example is Californication. I enjoyed Californication for many, many years before making a perfect remaster with no brickwalling or distortion.  Do I enjoy it more...yes...it's nice having dynamic range and clarity and no distortion whatsoever but the emotion behind the music is the same.

 

[dleblanc343]

Hey Luis, is there any possbility to hear your remaster of Californication?? 

 
Quote:

Yeah...I completely understand but for me, the emotion will always come through...crappy or not. I just don't believe in compensating for someone else and their crap job. A good example is Californication. I enjoyed Californication for many, many years before making a perfect remaster with no brickwalling or distortion.  Do I enjoy it more...yes...it's nice having dynamic range and clarity and no distortion whatsoever but the emotion behind the music is the same.

 
 

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Hey Luis, is there any possbility to hear your remaster of Californication?? 

 

 
 

Of course...come over to my place or see me at a meet.