How do I get round a hi-fi amplifier's "poor" headphones output?

[Sonic Defender]

I shouldn't but.....

 

[nicholars]

  Not until we correct this sentence:
 
'Your opinion "speaker amp headphone jacks are better than dedicated headphone amps"'
 
That's something I never said. What I said was:
 
'the better speaker amps are capable of equal or even better performance with high impedance headphones than many dedicated amps'.
 
If you can't see the difference I suggest you attend a debating class.

 
Meh ok great whatever you want Bye!

 

[pp312]

  I shouldn't but.....

 
Sorry, but your popcorn 's going to go stale. This inane conversation is now officially over, and not a moment too soon. .

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Sorry, but your popcorn 's going to go stale. This inane conversation is now officially over, and not a moment too soon. .

There was no butter anyway so what to hoot. Yes, without a showdown of approved public testing's this type of debate remains firmly circular. I hope to eventually get off my ass and do some testing. Anyway, suffice to say quality sound can be had in many ways and beauty will always lie in the ears of the beholder.

 

[nicholars]

  Anyway, suffice to say quality sound can be had in many ways and beauty will always lie in the ears of the beholder.

 
Good conclusion you put it better than anyone else in the thread including me!

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Good conclusion you put it better than anyone else in the thread including me!

Cheers, I notice you like Shure gear. That is a sound signature I've never heard and I have been wanting to try. Is the 1540 a good way to go?

 

[nicholars]

 
Cheers, I notice you like Shure gear. That is a sound signature I've never heard and I have been wanting to try. Is the 1540 a good way to go?

 
Yes Shure are awesome if you want natural sound and no sibilance / harsh treble etc. The 1540 are one of their best headphones. They make a lot of very good professional audio equipment. Build quality and comfort is very good as well.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Yes Shure are awesome if you want natural sound and no sibilance / harsh treble etc. The 1540 are one of their best headphones. They make a lot of very good professional audio equipment. Build quality and comfort is very good as well.

 
Nice. I just need adapters made as I run from a speaker tap cable and currently the ends are terminated for my HE 560 so unless it comes with a balanced cable I have work to do, but I have read about the 1540 and thought it sounded worth trying. Cheers.

 

[nicholars]

   
Nice. I just need adapters made as I run from a speaker tap cable and currently the ends are terminated for my HE 560 so unless it comes with a balanced cable I have work to do, but I have read about the 1540 and thought it sounded worth trying. Cheers.

 
Probably they will sound dark and bassy compared to your hifimans but they would be a good second pair, I have the 1540 and D2000 at moment, D2000 are good for short blasts and the 1540 are good for longer sessions / different genres / general use as the sound on them is not harsh at all.

 

[Focker]

I've always had a desire to hear some Shure gear, as well. I almost picked up some IEMs the other day, but at the last minute went a different direction. Sooner or later I need to give a listen, though. 

 

[funkymartyn]

Anyone know what the headphone outputs on the , Yamaha AX 396 amp , and the Marantz cd 6000 ose .....the marantz as a built in volume which you have to turn right down as its so loud..Any info would be nice, thanks in advance......headphones I use on these is the...Grado sr 325i , senn hd 580, and sometimes the sr 60s.....

 

[mikebarber]

Several people have mentioned that it is risky driving headphones from a speaker amp's outputs directly. It certainly is possible, but there are risks involved, and I thought I would elaborate on some of them  
 
1. Be aware what kind of power amp you have... if it's a differential/balanced/bridged amp, then the + and - speaker terminals BOTH have voltage on them relative to ground. If you hook up a single-ended headphone, then you're assuming both - terminals are connected to ground, which means that you're shorting them together. The amp will not enjoy this, and there will be some kind of failure, probably expensive.
 
Make dead sure the amp is single ended first if you're planning on using single-ended headphones. The - terminals should measure zero ohms to ground (chassis) with the amp off, and should have zero volts (ac or dc) when music is playing, relative to each other and to ground. 
 
2. Be wary of DC offsets. Power amps are designed to drive speakers, and speakers are more tolerant of slight DC offsets than headphones are because the voice coils can dissipate more heat. Even if a high offset doesn't cook headphones, they certainly won't sound wonderful. So, it would not be surprising to see a bit of DC offset on a lot of power amps. I'm not sure what is safe for a headphone, but I would be wary of connecting cans to any amp with more than, say, 20mV of DC offset. This can be measured using any relatively good multimeter, across the speaker terminals with the amp switched on and no music playing. Check it with the amp cold and fully warmed up -- it will probably drift. 
 
A lot of headphone amps will be decoupled with a capacitor for this reason. This will be less common in speaker amps.
 
3. In general, I wouldn't want to have the headphones plugged in when you turn the amp on or off. The resulting transient (thump) might be fine for speakers, but not for headphones.
 
4. Volume levels, obviously A speaker amp can deliver lots of power, and has high voltage rails, maybe -/+ 30V, maybe -/+ 100V. Even high-impedance headphones are only going to need a fraction of this. In essence, the speaker amp has plenty enough voltage and power to fry your cans.
 
5. Noise. Power amps have high voltage gains, to get from the 1-2V input to the potentially 100V output. Speakers are not as sensitive as headphones, so you might hear quite a bit of noise on the headphones that you don't hear on the speakers. How much noise there is depends on the amp, of course! This won't fry your headphones, but don't be too surprised if there's noise (especially with lower impedance headphones). Also the reason a lot of headphone amps have a "high" or "low" gain switch.
 
6. Valve/tube amps... extra caution required. I know very little about such equipment so I won't surmise
 
These are the things I'd think about before just hooking up. I'd read up lots on the subject before trying it. I'd be reasonably confident hooking up *my* headphones to *my* amp because I know their characteristics, but quite scared of what happens if there's a power failure and amp shutdown with the headphones connected.
 
Hope this helps! 

 

[funkymartyn]

Thanks for the info.....but any info on my cd and amp would be nice.....I know theyre a few years old , but both are still very , cheers.

 

[Smithington]

I contacted marantz to ask about the headphone out impedance etc on my PM7200 integrated amp. They acknowledged my question but never answered.

However, this is what I'm using to drive my BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80ohm. To me, the combo sounds great, so the specs are to me irrelevant.

Have you tried your headphones with your Yamaha amp or marantz cd player? Do they sound ok to you? If you're dissatisfied, take your headphones to your nearest hifi shop and ask to try them with a dedicated amp. You might find that that there is no discernable improvement as some of us have said, the built in headphone amp is not as terrible as you might be led to believe. No point spending money just because someone else has said you need dedicated components, if you're currently happy...

 

[nicholars]

I contacted marantz to ask about the headphone out impedance etc on my PM7200 integrated amp. They acknowledged my question but never answered.

However, this is what I'm using to drive my BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80ohm. To me, the combo sounds great, so the specs are to me irrelevant.

Have you tried your headphones with your Yamaha amp or marantz cd player? Do they sound ok to you? If you're dissatisfied, take your headphones to your nearest hifi shop and ask to try them with a dedicated amp. You might find that that there is no discernable improvement as some of us have said, the built in headphone amp is not as terrible as you might be led to believe. No point spending money just because someone else has said you need dedicated components, if you're currently happy...

 
Yes I would have to agree with this... Try your headphones on both... Do you like the sound? Are you happy with it? if you are then it doesn't matter if they are "good" or not if you like the sound... If you don't like the sound then you can get improved sound using a good dedicated dac / headphone amp.