[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ The sr125's suck. Biggie.

Really? That bad?

I wonder whether the ms1 is a 125 with a different name and a bit of tweaking because they sound great and actually quite mellow. I have seen suggestions that they may be.

Just thought ..... maybe it's the pads that the ms1 come with.

Ian

 

[Hezz]

Ian,

Perhaps I need to catch up on current headphone sound but in the past it was the Senn's that had the poor sound per dollar value. In fact, ten years ago there were not many good sounding Senn headphones at any price below 250 dollars. Maybe I just don't like the Senn sound or maybe things have changed since more people are buying headphones to listen to music while working on the PC. Saying this, I have to tell you that I don't generally listen to rock music but more acoustically recorded music like folk, classical, soundtracks, etc.

All the Senn's I auditioned had poor dynamics. Maybe this was because they need a lot of break in and don't sound good on first impressions but I didn't have the funds to try every can by buying and having an extended audition.

I preferred my 150 dollar SR-125 to the then 350 dollar HD-580 so I can't agree with the price/performance argument.

If you listen to the 125's with a good source such as a well mastered SACD and a good headphone amp you will be shocked at how good they are. Not even in the same league as typical computer driven CD or MP3 sound on standard headphones. So unless the 125 quality has changed I can't agree with the price/performance argument, although I can see how others have different priorities and would consider the 225 the better bargain.

My feeling is that the majority of folks who listen to headphones almost exclusively only use standard grade electronics to drive them and they haven't heard them at their highest potential sound quality.

 

[F1GTR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezz My feeling is that the majority of folks who listen to headphones almost exclusively only use standard grade electronics to drive them and they haven't heard them at their highest potential sound quality.

Truth abounds in this sentence.

 

[Connectz]

I tried them out about a week ago and didn't like them at all. There was just TOO MUCH treble and sibilance (using a Marantz Receiver and a SACD player). Also, I did not like the earpads.

 

[Hezz]

NotoriousBig,

I have a feeling that it is not the SR-125's that suck but they are revealing many of the flaws of the source components. THe reason so many like the Sr-60's for instance is not because they are so good sounding but because they work so well with cheap electronics. Covering up most of the flaws and sounding generally pleasant.

Connectz,

You are right about the earpads. And the 125's are not the most comfortable cans. This is generally accepted as the weak points of these headphones. The treble and sibilance problems may be from the source components because I hear no significant issues with my 125's in this regard. However, just because the 125's expose a host of mass market electronic sound issues dosn't make them bad headphones. But they might not be the best choice for your electronics gear. Or the best match for what you were auditioning them on.

To really tell how the cans sound you will need to audition them on reference quality gear which is usually difficult to do as most places that sell cans are lucky to supply you with even a mediocre quality source to audition from.

Also, high end headphone amps are not usually popular at high end audio stores. That is why there is such a significant DIY segment in this regard.

 

[Naris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezz The SR-125's used to be identical to the 225's except for the driver were not matched as closely. If this is still the case there is no possible reason for the love of the 225's and the dislike of the 125's.

That's pretty much it. That and an improved screen made with a pretty nice metal. I actually wouldn't be able to compare the two though, only Grados I've ever had any experience with are the HF-1 and the SR-325 (non i edition). I really should get an SR60/80 one of these days just to try out and use as a knockaround portable...

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezz Ian, I preferred my 150 dollar SR-125 to the then 350 dollar HD-580 so I can't agree with the price/performance argument. My feeling is that the majority of folks who listen to headphones almost exclusively only use standard grade electronics to drive them and they haven't heard them at their highest potential sound quality.

Hezz,

I quite like the sr60 myself, but driven by the Graham Slee Solo Amp. The amp indeed makes a difference but there seems to be a little more difference with the 225's.

It's just that the 125 sits between these two so I'm not really talking about just price/performance but just the pricing point of the 125 and why they aren't talked about so much.

I'm sure the 125 sounds good and like most headphones, they benefit from a good amp. The Senns also benefit from good amps, but I'm not sure why they've come into the discussion.

Ian

 

[Hezz]

Ian,

I think I was just on my soapbox with the Senn's. I see what you are saying with the 125 pricing. For many the 50 dollar extra for the 225 will make the 125 seem like a can without a market. But for some 150 would be an outer stretch price range that they would be willing to pay for a set of headphones.

The only real negatives that I can honestly say regarding the 125's are that they are not the most comfortable for most people and they don't work at all well with inexpensive electronics.

I think for me, when I heard the 60's it was an environmental thing that drove me towards the 125's. The only place that I could audition the Grado phones was at a high end shop that had a lot of really expensive high end gear. With these sources the 125's really excelled.

In any regards, It sounds as if we both have a liking to the Grado sound.

Lately, I am now listening to more music at the PC while working. So I will probably be buying a couple of sets of good new cans during the year. I would like something that is more characteristic of the Grado sound of the past that I had liked so much but now I find that I have no local dealers that I can audition good headphones at.

So I will be buying some models based on review information. The ones I would like to buy are the Beyer DT-880's, Sony MDR-SA3000, and a good but inexpensive pair of sealed cans for computer gaming that have good bass and are less than 120 bucks.

My Grados 125's are still going strong so I will just get some new pads.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezz NotoriousBig, I have a feeling that it is not the SR-125's that suck but they are revealing many of the flaws of the source components. THe reason so many like the Sr-60's for instance is not because they are so good sounding but because they work so well with cheap electronics. Covering up most of the flaws and sounding generally pleasant.

The sr125's arn't showing me the flaws of my source, but my twice modded extrememly smooth and neutral source has shown me the limits of the sr125's. They have the worst midrange of any grado I have listened to, and I don't enjoy cymbals being reproduced that loudly. You are confusing brightness as detail I'm afraid. Btw I'm using modified ps-1 pros as my main headphone.

Biggie.

 

[Hezz]

NotoriousBig,

OK, I think I can see where you are coming from. Compared to the really high end and refined upper end headphones and sources the Sr-125's may indeed have these flaws.

When I am giving my opinions they are generally in comparision to mass market sound characteristics rather than the best products in the upper ranks. Compared to completely neutral class A sound you are probably right and of course some listeners are more sensitive too certain imperfections in certain frequency areas.

For instance, when I auditioned the Senn HD-580's it was obvious to me that they had a much more refined and liquid high freguency reproduction that the SR-125's. But for me I could not get over the dark and veiled midrange of the 580's which for me was the most important aspect since I listen to a lot of vocal music.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hezz Ian, The only real negatives that I can honestly say regarding the 125's are that they are not the most comfortable for most people and they don't work at all well with inexpensive electronics. In any regards, It sounds as if we both have a liking to the Grado sound. .

Well, if the MS1 is an sr125 modded by Alessandro, they are truly excellent! You're quite right, I do like the Grados.

I underestimated the sr225 when I first got them and I went and sold them. In the end, I bought another pair and I now find I'm using them more and more for all types of music.

The MS1 is a lovely headphone and improves with amping too. Really clean, even with the comfy pads on. I presume that you haven't tried the sr125 with comfies or flats? I have flats on the sr225 and they really rumble. I find the bowls hard to keep on for long periods although the clean sound and better imaging is above the flats imo.

I also think that the difference between the 60 and 225 isn't exactly massive in any case so the 125 must be just the same. They are all so useful as well with the option of using a high class amp at home and even go without an amp portable. They all sound ok straight from DAP. (Still better with a portable amp) but there's versatility there along with quality.

Ian

 

[F107plus5]

The company who manufactures the speakers in my home system that I am very fond of and wanted to try to copy in cans, makes two varieties: "Foreward" and "Not quite as foreward"

Grado makes two varieties of headphones: Grado"Foreward" and Alessandro"Not quite as foreward"

My home system consists of the "Not quite as foreward" variety. I have MS-1s.

If I were using the other variety of speaker.....

 

[dominickpalella]

I auditioned the 125 and 225 for about an hour before deciding on the 225 at a local store. It seemed to me that the 225 produced more detail. The sales person remarked that almost everyone who compared these two cans in his store chose the 225. However, when I continued to listen to the 225's at home I found them to sound thin and lacking in detail and bass (maybe a burn-in issue?) I bought the Todd flat pads and this improved the sound quality significantly IMO.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominickpalella However, when I continued to listen to the 225's at home I found them to sound thin and lacking in detail and bass (maybe a burn-in issue?) I bought the Todd flat pads and this improved the sound quality significantly IMO.

That's exactly why I sold my first pair of 225's. I persevered with the second pair and I change the pads from bowls to flats and back again. The flats give you plenty of weight but I miss the treble after a while and so I go back!

I think the treble lift calms down with time.

Ian

 

[Jam_Master_J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimothy For $50 more, you can get an SR225, and for $50 less, you can get an MS1, which is a more refined version of the SR125. It's just not priced very well.

Exactly what I was thinking. Their price doesn't make them as good of a choice compared to the Allesandro MS-1 and SR-225.