hooking up trransformer in reverse question...
Jul 19, 2003 at 11:13 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

KTpG

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I think in order to get some extra voltage that I am going to need (about 100-300V), I will hook up a transformer in reverse , and have that fed by a 12VDC wallwart. Is it safe to get a transformer that normally hooks to 120VAC and puts out 6VAC, then hook this to 12VDC and get more than 120V? I should get about 240VDC if I do this, right? Thanks
 
Jul 19, 2003 at 11:53 PM Post #2 of 16
Do these types of transformers do DC? AFAICT, while this might work with AC(albeit at the VA rating of the secondary, not the primary), transformers don't transmit DC.
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 1:52 AM Post #4 of 16
Never exceed the rated voltage of a transformer with AC. You will saturate the core and let the smoke out of the winding. DC will saturate the unit immediately at a very low voltage.
Mike
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 2:26 AM Post #7 of 16
Crap.

That is all that I say... Crap.
redface.gif


EDIT: What if I use a 120VAC to 12VDC wall wart, but backwards to take 12VDC input and output 120VAC? Does this work?
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 3:06 AM Post #9 of 16
You're starting with the solution you want to use and trying to bend the problem to fit that solution. There are several ways to boost voltage.

One is a DC-DC converter. I have never seen one that will put out the kind of voltage you're asking for, but that's not a technical limitation. You may have to look in the industrial market, or you may have to see if there are companies that will build you one to spec. It's probably not sane to talk about building one yourself. It's similar technology to switching power supplies. This technology is mature, powerful and complicated, and can give great results.

Another method is a capacitor charge pump. This can boost voltages by 2-4x with straightforward component arrangements. Indeed, many "DC-DC converters" rely on external capacitors to complete an internal charge pump circuit. The problem with this idea is that it's hard to get a clean waveform out of the supply.

The best method is to get rid of that 12VDC wall wart. It's holding you back. Instead, start with wall voltage and use a step-up transformer to get to the voltage you want. Then you can follow that with standard AC-DC power supply design concepts to make DC from that. The tube amp world should provide you with dozens of suitable circuits.
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 3:07 AM Post #10 of 16
Yes... but they are too large, cost too much, and don't provide that perfect sinewave we are looking for....
frown.gif


EDIT: Tangent-- the problem is, I am running from 12VDC no matter what (battery) and need to step up to around 150-300VDC. I would say 100VDC at bare minimum.
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 4:21 AM Post #11 of 16
Quote:

Originally posted by KTpG
Yes... but they are too large, cost too much, and don't provide that perfect sinewave we are looking for....
frown.gif


EDIT: Tangent-- the problem is, I am running from 12VDC no matter what (battery) and need to step up to around 150-300VDC. I would say 100VDC at bare minimum.


I don't think you'd have enough current left to do anything useful at that point... (from batteries) - however this is a statement derived from a 3-year old memory of a physics class, and a large estimation.

-dd3mon
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 4:46 AM Post #12 of 16
Quote:

Yes... but they are too large, cost too much, and don't provide that perfect sinewave we are looking for....


What is "they"? I'm guessing you're talking about inverters.

Too large? Yes, well what did you expect for a device that has to put out several amps at high voltage? I'll bet whatever it is you're trying to power won't be small, either, for the very same reason.

Cost too much? They are indeed costly, but so are all of the methods I listed above, if you want high quality.

No perfect sine wave? The better quality inverters do put out decent-quality sine waves. (What you get out of the wall isn't a perfect sine wave, either!) Yes, the cheap ones put out nasty waves, but that's what you're stuck with if you insist on going DC->AC->DC.

Quote:

I don't think you'd have enough current left to do anything useful at that point... (from batteries) - however this is a statement derived from a 3-year old memory of a physics class, and a large estimation.


From a car battery, you may have enough current. You do bring up an interesting point. KTpG, how much current do you need at the operating voltage?

Remember, the power you can get out of any system is largely constant, up to its current or voltage limits. If you have something that will put out 1V at 1A, you can probably convert that to 10V at 100mA or 100V at 10mA, less any losses in the conversion process. It's all 1W no matter how you look at it.
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 5:15 AM Post #13 of 16
Well, I will need probably 100mA max to be safe, maybe more like 50mA max... as a rough estimate. So, not too much. And, car battery was the idea. Then I will need an additional 200mA or so @12VDC, so that is no problem to get.

Needs to be pretty small... and fairly cheap, or the cost will far outweigh the benefits... I have a low voltage alternate, but the higher voltage would work better, unless it cost a fortune to create.
 
Jul 20, 2003 at 7:26 AM Post #15 of 16
Quote:

maybe more like 50mA max... as a rough estimate. So, not too much.


50mA at 150V is 7.5W. Allowing for about 20% losses, that means you'll end up drawing about 750mA at 12V. Still sound like "not too much" power?
 

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