[tranhieu]

Quote:

just like acoustic waveguides with speakers, they really arent enough all on their own. they are good for keeping the passive components in the XO to a minimum, but they cannot replace the XO entirely. for starters if the tweeter is sent the full signal including bass that is out of its operating range, you will kill the tweeter. there is nothing wrong with using them as a tool, but they simply cannot do the full job in a multidriver IEM, they can be used to filter the output frequencies, but they cannot filter the distortion and or damage caused by sending them audio and power outside of their SOA

One thing to note is that unlike real tweeter, BA 'tweeters' don't get hurt from being fed with low frequency signal. To put it more precisely, there exists no real tweeters in BA world, only those that are better at producing high frequencies compared to others, which are later on called 'tweeter'. They all are full range drivers in the first place.
Anyway, you are correct about needing more than just some simple acoustics filters in a multi-casing iem (not multi-driver).

 

[wz2000]

Quote:

 
some people are allergic to epoxy and it generally isnt considered safe to use internally

 
Well, the epoxy I'm using is intended mainly for making jewelry, so a prolonged skin contact has likely been taken into account. Also the product description says its food safe. Allergies are a different matter of course, but people can be allergic to almost anything, so no product can be completely safe for everyone.

 

[kiteki]

Originally Posted by tranhieu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
One thing to note is that unlike real tweeter, BA 'tweeters' don't get hurt from being fed with low frequency signal. To put it more precisely, there exists no real tweeters in BA world, only those that are better at producing high frequencies compared to others, which are later on called 'tweeter'. They all are full range drivers in the first place.
Anyway, you are correct about needing more than just some simple acoustics filters in a multi-casing iem (not multi-driver).

 
The Sony XBA's do indeed have a tweeter in the -3 and -4 models as you can see in this image - http://www.sony-asia.com/product/resources/en_AP/images/Overview/PA/headphones/XBA/img-multiplexing-1.gif
 
For some reason it feels like the XBA-4 has more treble presence, contrary to those pictures.
 
You're right typical BA's are not 'natural tweeters', I tried to convince UM to make an ED-29689 (bass) and TWFK (treble) CIEM for me and they said that won't sound good since there's better drivers for bass.  I don't care, I want my CK10<->ER-4S hybrid.

 

[tranhieu]

Quote:

 
The Sony XBA's do indeed have a tweeter in the -3 and -4 models as you can see in this image - http://www.sony-asia.com/product/resources/en_AP/images/Overview/PA/headphones/XBA/img-multiplexing-1.gif
 
For some reason it feels like the XBA-4 has more treble presence, contrary to those pictures.
 
You're right typical BA's are not 'natural tweeters', I tried to convince UM to make an ED-29689 (bass) and TWFK (treble) CIEM for me and they said that won't sound good since there's better drivers for bass.  I don't care, I want my CK10<->ER-4S hybrid.

ok my bad, I should have made it clearer: there exists no real tweeter in BA world whose technical documents are available to the market.

 

[edba2000]

Quote:

I am looking for a crossover design for my next project.
The drivers will be:
 
one CI-22955 and one ED-29689.
 
Since the famous Etymotic ER-4s is using a single ED-29680 and the reviews are great,
I am thinking on adding a CI-22955 to compensate the known lack of bass.
 
Sugestions for the crossover and the filters are welcome!

After some research I have made this sketch:
 

 
GREY damper to attenuate some of the the highs and the RED for cutting most of the high frequencies on the CI.
 
Any opinions?

 

[tsn141]

Quote:

After some research I have made this sketch:
 

 
GREY damper to attenuate some of the the highs and the RED for cutting most of the high frequencies on the CI.
 
Any opinions?

Very logical but tube lenght and damper positions maybe important.22 ohm can be lesser.I can give you a prediction;you will get huge depth in sound stage due to phase differance on these drivers.
(I get this by using sonion 2323 and 2015 combination without caps.sound come from far away.I causes due to large phase differance on 2323 and 2015)(I can see these on LTspice graph.

 

[edba2000]

tsn141. thanks for sharing your experience! 
So.... should I forget the CI or the ED?
What is the alternative? 

 

[tsn141]

Another point,I can not undertood clearly the disscusion which mentined above.
However,I can say that about filters and XO's:
I main aim is not providing a good graph,the aim is achieve good sound.For example you can get there is good bass on SPL graphs,but if there is highly resonant peak your bass is boomy and not textured.you can dapmer these resonant peaks by using both filters or resistor on XO or long tubes etc.
The SPL graphs per driver is not realistic on SONY provided.Because,the bass drivers take on most of the spectrum.

 

[tsn141]

Quote:

tsn141. thanks for sharing your experience! 
So.... should I forget the CI or the ED?
What is the alternative? 

Sorry,I saw your post now.
The ED equvalent of 2300 series of sonion,CI is equvalent of 2000 series.
It is my guess.

I tried some experiments with 2323 and 2015.When I used 2015 with green damper and 2323 with white damper and
2015 used directly 2323 used XO and a experimentaly a resistor.As my experinces the most important part is 500 hz and 6k region.I share a document previous pages.Which band causes what.It is good key for improving sound.

 

[kiteki]

Quick question, anyone know which drivers the Audeo PFE232 is using?  I can demo it whenever I like, and it doesn't sound like it's using any driver I've heard before.
 
I know AlienEars use Sonion drivers, and offer cheap CIEM's, even if not on the PFE232 level, I'd love a dual-driver from them using the same Sonion's, if this is the case!

 

[tsn141]

Quote:

Quick question, anyone know which drivers the Audeo PFE232 is using?  I can demo it whenever I like, and it doesn't sound like it's using any driver I've heard before.
 
I know AlienEars use Sonion drivers, and offer cheap CIEM's, even if not on the PFE232 level, I'd love a dual-driver from them using the same Sonion's, if this is the case!

As I mentioned many times,key point is tuning of drivers.Also UE uses sonion drivers.(custom made)

 

[kiteki]

As I mentioned many times,key point is tuning of drivers.Also UE uses sonion drivers.(custom made)

 
So?  You need to know which driver to tune, hence why I'm asking.  You can't 100% turn driver X into driver Z with any tuning, no matter how hard you try.

 

[tsn141]

Quote:

 
So?  You need to know which driver to tune, hence why I'm asking.  You can't 100% turn driver X into driver Z with any tuning, no matter how hard you try.

As I understant from tuning is deciding XO values and sound tube parameters.For example :you can get bassy IEM with Er-4 drivers.
For quality aspect:
The sound stage feeling is a distortion,also warmth is a distortion.boomy bass is a resonance at low freqs.The key point how much add which distortion and how much add which resonance.

 

[kiteki]

As I understant from tuning is deciding XO values and sound tube parameters.For example :you can get bassy IEM with Er-4 drivers.
For quality aspect:
The sound stage feeling is a distortion,also warmth is a distortion.boomy bass is a resonance at low freqs.The key point how much add which distortion and how much add which resonance.

 
You can call it distortion if you want, but only two specific BA drivers can acheive that distortion, none other, so I need to know what they are, or it'll be impossible to make that sound, that's it.

 

[piotrus-g]

Quote:

Quick question, anyone know which drivers the Audeo PFE232 is using?  I can demo it whenever I like, and it doesn't sound like it's using any driver I've heard before.
 
I know AlienEars use Sonion drivers, and offer cheap CIEM's, even if not on the PFE232 level, I'd love a dual-driver from them using the same Sonion's, if this is the case!

They are using custom made drivers 2300 series from Sonion. It dosn't metter which number you have after 23, because you won't find that driver in retail