Holo Audio Red Streamer

[heyguyslol]

@heyguyslol sorry, I wasn't really clear about what I have here. I've got two stacks - one where I connect directly from my Mac to the Holo Cyan, and another where I have a Ropieee just like you and connect that to a D90. Its really that setup I was comparing in my head (I realise I said the reference was my Mac connection, and I said that because it can do other things that the Ropieee can't do the way I use things - namely full fat hires via Apple Music).

So to be more succinct: I'm wondering how much better then Red to a DAC would be vs the Ropiee setup I have now. One nice thing about the Red is that it supports Tidal directly - I would be tempted to subscribe if I can get Hires straight to the streamer and then onto the DAC which seems like it should work nicely. Be very keen to hear your own experiences as you get time to compare those two setups!

Lastly though, I am keen to understand this statement a little better:


Why do you think the Pi4 does a better job than the Mac of sending the data on the USB connection? It doesnt have discrete power for that circuit from the main CPU, is it just because you see it as doing _less_ other stuff, being single purpose? Again, I'm just trying to get a grip on the technical rationale for why one might improve things over the other.

Thanks (and please take all these questions as they are intended...with curiosity and a desire to hear what people have to say...)

I would agree if you can't tell the difference between a direct usb pc/mac connect vs a Pi4 endpoint then there's def something else going on w/ your chain.

I was agreeing w/ what I read previously from "Axiom05".

If you can't hear the difference between your Red and your Mac, there is a problem somewhere.

Tbh I'm not a mac user outside of my ipad mini but I would assume that mac computer is just as noisy as a pc but perhaps I'm wrong on that? I guess it would depend on the mac device you are using.

 

[Deleeh]

If the streamer is connected to the network, it actually streams via the network, at least if it runs via Roon, you don't even have to connect the Dac to the Red at Roon if the Dac is connected to the network in another way, like on another PC.
The other thing is the noise, because the Pi is only a small computer without a fan, it contributes a lot.
The second thing is the clean power supply where it is installed.
And the third thing is the programme structure, the Pi does not need much in the programme and services like Windows roughly speaking, the programmes are relatively small in relation and only limited to the most necessary.
All in all, this makes a big difference in getting a decent performance.
I would not have thought that there was so much potential in streaming.
I'm currently using a PC to try it out with Dietpi and I'm actually very happy with it.
The only thing that worries me about the PC in general is the high power consumption, and a Red or equivalent makes up a lot of the total if everything has been kept to a minimum and processed cleanly.
I'm not sure if the Red has a clock built in, if so it will certainly get the jitter under control if something is there via USB.

 

[jamiekp]

This is a different situation. The DAC is the recipient device and the Crystek 957 clocks inside the SDA-6 are used to control the DAC itself and therefore have a direct impact on performance. This is not the same as a clock on a USB output.

The clocks in a DAC absolutely matter.


There are plenty of products in audio that have various features and design aspects. But inclusion of something in some products does not mean it's actually beneficial to do.


USB does run at a speed of 48Mhz, but the point is that this clock is not used at all for the actual audio conversion.
Everything is put into a buffer, and then converted using the DAC's internal clocks (such as the Crystek 957s in the aforementioned SDA-6). So long as this clock is not so terrible that the devices are unable to communicate properly or there is a buffer underrun (buffer becoming empty due to not being fed info fast enough) or a buffer overrun (buffer becoming full), it does not have an effect on DAC performance. (You'll know if you have either of these issues as the connection will either fail completely or you'll get very obvious clicking/popping sounds.

If this were the case, then a huge amount of modern USB or network based devices and technologies simply wouldn't work.


As mentioned, if this were the case, it would completely defy our understanding and design of many modern communications technologies and they simply would not work.
Showing a difference in jitter due to different SPDIF, I2S or other synchronous protocol sources is easy. In fact it's pretty easy to even show (very small) differences due to different cables.
But with USB, no evidence has ever been shown that the clock of the USB controller in the host device could have an impact on jitter of the converter. Nor any explanation as to how that could be the case.

(UAC1.0 is a different discussion but basically nothing uses that nowadays so it's a bit of a moot point)

This!!!

 

[heyguyslol]

Received my RED late Tues night. I didn't get it setup until Weds evening after work. The i2s (0.25m = 1ft) cable arrived Fri afternoon. Build time to receive took exactly 5 weeks to the day.

As a reminder I'm using the RED as a streamer only and I have no plans to test or use the DDC of the unit any time soon.

Setup was smooth and easy w/ RopieeeXL (I have not tried the RED OS). I understand ppl want sound impressions especially when compared to a Pi4/RopieeeXL. Tbh I don't feel I can do this at the time of this post bc frankly I haven't had the time to sit down and really listen to make the comparisons.

I'm NOT one for 1st impressions so w/ that being said I'll report back in about a week so I can fully test compare it and give my best accurate impressions.

What I can report is that the i2s setup was smooth and easy BUT despite the RED manual stating that i2s can support PCM 1.536M w/ RopieeeXL; I was unable to get it to do so. Highest was 768K. DSD worked as expected DSD512X.

I'm a bit curious as to why the RED manual states that i2s can support PCM 1.536M w/ RopieeeXL when by default it doesn't appear to be the case. I had no expectations that it would work but I was just hoping that it would.

I am by no means a Linux guru and I'm wondering if there is further tweaking that can be done to the RopieeeXL kernel or settings else where that will allow for PCM 1.536M to work via i2s?

I can say one thing I do like is that swapping back and forth from USB to i2s is easy and smooth. No need to login to RopieeeXL and make changes and reboot like the Red OS. Just select the input and relaunch HQP and press play. This is refreshing as I suspect there may be a case where one input might favor SQ over the other.

Any questions are welcome just be aware that requested testing is fine but due to time constraints I may not be able to accommodate.

 

[hungdaman]

Hi,
Can anyone confirm that usb out is working with airplay 2?
Mine is not working, it is like it is not switching to the usb out even though i set the output for it in RED OS to usb out for airplay 2.
i tried with 3 dacs already, none of them works from usb out of the RED.

 

[is3commander]

Hi,
Can anyone confirm that usb out is working with airplay 2?
Mine is not working, it is like it is not switching to the usb out even though i set the output for it in RED OS to usb out for airplay 2.
i tried with 3 dacs already, none of them works from usb out of the RED.

You need to switch output in software. USB is different than any other output. In Roon it will appear under separate device etc.

 

[hungdaman]

Yes I have switched it in red os but still does not work
See pic

 

[heyguyslol]

Hi,
Can anyone confirm that usb out is working with airplay 2?
Mine is not working, it is like it is not switching to the usb out even though i set the output for it in RED OS to usb out for airplay 2.
i tried with 3 dacs already, none of them works from usb out of the RED.

Are you using the RED as a DDC or Streamer?

 

[hungdaman]

I am using as streamer for AirPlay 2
USB out does not work
Can u tell me if it is working for you?

 

[heyguyslol]

I am using as streamer for AirPlay 2
USB out does not work
Can u tell me if it is working for you?

To answer your question, I'm not using Airplay.

However, since you are using your RED as a streamer I'd like to make a recommendation to switch to RopieeeXL. It does support Airplay and you won't need to login, change settings, reboot, etc like you are having to do w/ RED OS. It just works...

If you do decide to switch be sure to keep your org RED OS sd card. Just make a new image to a new card. If you find you don't like it you can easily just swap back.

EDIT: Nvm, I was not aware there was an Airplay 1 and Airplay 2, so I'm not sure if it supports 1 & 2 or just 1.

EDIT: So from a brief search on the Roon forums Ropieee does support Airplay 2 and has for some time but if you need AP1 you can just tick the "Force Airplay 1".

 

[hungdaman]

thanks, can i have the url for instructions on how to install?

 

[hungdaman]

just install ropieexl with this image form the site
ropieeexl_ose_pi4-2024.10.0-stable.20241026.1840
not sure if this is the normal ropieee or the XL version.

Still doesn't work
no usb out via airplay

 

[TChan]

If the streamer is connected to the network, it actually streams via the network, at least if it runs via Roon, you don't even have to connect the Dac to the Red at Roon if the Dac is connected to the network in another way, like on another PC.
The other thing is the noise, because the Pi is only a small computer without a fan, it contributes a lot.
The second thing is the clean power supply where it is installed.
And the third thing is the programme structure, the Pi does not need much in the programme and services like Windows roughly speaking, the programmes are relatively small in relation and only limited to the most necessary.
All in all, this makes a big difference in getting a decent performance.
I would not have thought that there was so much potential in streaming.
I'm currently using a PC to try it out with Dietpi and I'm actually very happy with it.
The only thing that worries me about the PC in general is the high power consumption, and a Red or equivalent makes up a lot of the total if everything has been kept to a minimum and processed cleanly.
I'm not sure if the Red has a clock built in, if so it will certainly get the jitter under control if something is there via USB.

Hi,
Could u pls talk about the situation as said 'don't even have to connect the Dac to the Red at Roon if the Dac is connected to the network' ?
Don't understand the purpose of RED in this situation. I am not a ROON user. Thks!

 

[George Hincapie]

I am currently using Holo Red with my May KTE via USB. I am pondering about Rose RS130. Has anyone compared them?

 

[Swagsupply]

How do I use the Red as a DDC from my streamer? I connected the streamer to the Red with HDMI out and then the red to my Dac with usb out but I am getting no sound.