[lsantista]

Didnt know that! Indeed I commented based on the info on their own site. Thks for pointing it out.
However my ultradigital will be for sale locally as im fine with usb from my spring and my new dac has hdmi but not i2s
Still would be interesting to see someone here who prefers i2s of their dacs bridging a couple of Reds, one for pure streaming with usb out and the other for converting to i2s

 

[koso]

Because it is a good streamer, and it actually improves sound quality to me over using usb straight from computer to May. I have no interest in using it as a DDC. Further (modest, not as much) incremental improvement comes from optical network isolation of the audio stuff from the rest of the home network. I’ve been “noise free” for a long time. These improvements are in terms of separation, detail, imaging, and soundstage. I’m quite pleased with the changes, for quite modest investment. I’m sure that one’s experience of these improvements are at least a little subjective, but also dependent on the chain as a whole. My power and cables are very good, and Red/May/Bliss/Envy scale well with incremental changes. I have a good USB cable that I actually feel was worth the investment even before going to Red. I expect i2s to be a downgrade here, but honestly have not tested it. If you want to lend me an i2s cable, I’d be happy to try.

I can add my experience here. Mainly talking about Red as I2S DDC in this case.
I have Spring 3 KTE and have been testing Red with any possible configuration in my setup. Testing alone as reclocker, alone as streamer, daisy-chaining Red and other reclockers, you name it. Results in my setup are following. I2S is slightly better sounding when compared to direct usb connection to my Aurender streamer. Same cable rating was used to compare direct usb and I2S connection (Siltech Classic series). I2S output on Red is in par with I2S output of Matrix X-Spdif 3, I2S output on Denafrips Gaia is better. So when I compared direct usb connection Aurender to Spring 3 vs Aurender to i2s DDC (Red or Matrix or Denafrips) I2S was slightly better. Denafrips Gaia being the best I2S from tested DDCs. Not huge difference though.

But everything changed by adding Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker to the chain. Aurender + PhoenixUSB to Spring usb input beats ALL other setups! No matter which reclocker with I2S was used, PhoenixUSB to USB input on Spring sounded always better. Even in the case when PhoenixUSB was put before i2S ddc. I have to mention that I am using excellent usb cables (Shunyata Alpha and Stealth T Select v3)... So my advice is: if you already have very good (lets say PhoenixUSB grade) usb source with good cables and Holo DAC with Titanis 2 module you don't have to try I2S. I purchased Red mainly to test how good its I2S output is (in reclocker or streamer mode), hoping for some kind of “Holo synergy” which could beat my current usb setup (with PhoenixUSB). Nothing miraculous happened, I stick to the usb setup.

 

[lsantista]

very interesting and maybe you should put it in the Phoenix thread. I keep repeating most streamers are but a "clean USB (most often) out" with some software integrating online music services with different levels of convenience. It's nice to see the Phoenix, being purely the clean usb solution, can add real benefit even on a great system with no obvious limiting factors. I almost grabbed one myself but had to hold back expenses.
Just a single comment that cant come out of mind though.. maybe, being a new product, the Red I2S wasnt as burnt-in as the other DDCs you used? Not that I have a clue of the #of hours it takes to full performance

 

[koso]

very interesting and maybe you should put it in the Phoenix thread. I keep repeating most streamers are but a "clean USB (most often) out" with some software integrating online music services with different levels of convenience. It's nice to see the Phoenix, being purely the clean usb solution, can add real benefit even on a great system with no obvious limiting factors. I almost grabbed one myself but had to hold back expenses.
Just a single comment that cant come out of mind though.. maybe, being a new product, the Red I2S wasnt as burnt-in as the other DDCs you used? Not that I have a clue of the #of hours it takes to full performance

Good point. Who knows how long burn in is needed for Red. I have started serious testing of Red after 3 weeks of 24/7 playback. Red is not going anywhere, right now I am going to test some streamer options (Volumio and others), so will keep my eye on Red for some time

 

[Baci]

But everything changed by adding Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker to the chain. Aurender + PhoenixUSB to Spring usb input beats ALL other setups! No matter which reclocker with I2S was used, PhoenixUSB to USB input on Spring sounded always better. Even in the case when PhoenixUSB was put before i2S ddc.

I'm absolutely not disputing your experience, but as USB relies on the clock in the DAC not the source for its timing, I'm not sure how a reclocker would impact on the sound quality? Genuinely not disputing that it does (I've used a AudioGD DDC on USB to great effect previously), but just wondering if anyone can provide an explanation for what is taking place here?

 

[kingoftown1]

Thanks @koso, that's the type of comparative feedback this thread desperately needed.

 

[spacecase25]

The broken english is a little unclear… is PCM 1.5 working now? Or does there still need to be additional updates?

 

[incredulousity]

The broken english is a little unclear… is PCM 1.5 working now? Or does there still need to be additional updates?

Fine with USB. The i2s guys can comment on their experiences.

 

[NikTe]

I'm absolutely not disputing your experience, but as USB relies on the clock in the DAC not the source for its timing, I'm not sure how a reclocker would impact on the sound quality? Genuinely not disputing that it does (I've used a AudioGD DDC on USB to great effect previously), but just wondering if anyone can provide an explanation for what is taking place here?

the transmission of the usb signals is asynchronous and driven by the DAC but the outgoing "audio" stream is in real time. When the dac asks the DDC for a data packet, this can arrive with some delay (jitter) and also some electrical disturbances. Now, if the usb receiver in the DAC doesn't have enough memory (buffer) to absorb the signal fluctuations (like the shock absorber of a car) it can only transfer part of the disturbance to the converter.

 

[intrepidcase]

Now, if the usb receiver in the DAC doesn't have enough memory (buffer) to absorb the signal fluctuations (like the shock absorber of a car) it can only transfer part of the disturbance to the converter.

If the jitter/delay is so bad that the dac’s usb buffer overflows then it will be clearly audible as a small pop/click. There’s no grey area here.

and also some electrical disturbances

Electrical ‘noise’ is the part that seems to be more up for debate.

 

[Clemmaster]

The cleaner the data, the less work the receiver has to do to interpret the signal, the less it itself generates inside the DAC.

 

[francesco81rs]

Hello, I ask for your help.
I recently received my new holo red, but I can't get the input USB port to work in any way.
Used with its default OS used as DDC does not work, the dac seems to have the USB input disconnected.
When used with moode audio OS, the device connected to the USB input (HardDisk) is not recognized.
I did a small test and by connecting the HD to the USB dedicated to the DAC instead, it is recognized and the songs are "seen" by SW.
I know that is the wrong USB port, it is dedicated to the DAC, but it's only a test.
Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks a lot to everyone.

 

[intrepidcase]

I am trying to figure this out as well - if the USB type B port can be used for any other purpose outside of Holo RED OS DDC redirection

eg. Flirc IR receiver with Ropieee OS or Bluetooth receiver for Rooextend OS or attached disk as per your case .... (with a type A or B adapter likely).

(An advantage that the Mercury V2 may have).

 

[francesco81rs]

I am trying to figure this out as well - if the USB type B port can be used for any other purpose outside of Holo RED OS DDC redirection

eg. Flirc IR receiver with Ropieee OS or Bluetooth receiver for Rooextend OS or attached disk as per your case .... (with a type A or B adapter likely).

(An advantage that the Mercury V2 may have).

From customer manual could be as you describe.
But I can't get it to work either as a DDC or as a streamer with USB storage (Moode audio)

 

[maxjsr]

From customer manual could be as you describe.
But I can't get it to work either as a DDC or as a streamer with USB storage (Moode audio)

I don't know if you have both connected (USB and Ethernet) at the same time. I think you can only have one or the other connected. And turn off and on the RED to change the type of connection.