[shigzeo]

I have stayed up tonight till 4:18 to discover a film that my trustworthy Trance DJ friend described as better than Infernal Affairs (the original) which was to my pallet, a tasteful cop movie. The film I just about slept through is called The Departed.

It had the geezer from Titanic and the Guy from Steven King's movie with the hotel. I don't watch movies often unless they are old so this was a change for me, but proof enough of concept that if a movie can win rave reviews from sensible bloaks like my friend - a good movie it does not make. Nor should such a film be consumed by my eyes without watering my gullet with something somewhat toxic.

Where the story truly departed was the professionalism with which all characters handled their particular jobs, perhaps a concept known as subtelty. The Departed used highly trained professionals to complete tasks that probably anyone and their kid could do. I have typed messages without looking in situations where I should not be using a phone. That and I am no cop, spy or even real techie. I won't even mention Titanic's use of the mobile as it was too juvenile to really bother about. Thumbs up for realism though as anyone could handle that.

Infernal affairs used morse code in various scenes. It is old, military and probably the people who can use it without looking up the code from a city the size of Toronto would fit in my house all at once.

Infernal Affairs had a director who understood that a story can be moved without every single move being annotated by every character. It was show not tell - quite a thumb rule for writing. After watching it, you could discuss what happened with a mate and have two differing opinions on what the death of Keung in the getaway scene and final crash meant.

There was a backstory that linked the two main mole characters which The Departed missed altogether. Each mole was the best and recruited because he was the best albeit for different reasons and employers. Throughout the story, I never doubted it. They did not yell or scream or throw tantrums or feel the need to curse at every opportunity. In the Departed, that backstory was mutilated and brought low to the level of state police who shouted, met in big board rooms, somehow were involved in anti-terror and fought like little children. I do not know who wrote this or directed this but it was as abrasive as as a sweater made of steel fleece.

On the topic of culture and subtelty, they enjoyed HiFi. One sold the other a hifi that Headfi would be prould of. Homemade, valves and made colourful by the addition of another IC or cable. There was drinking, but not shooters. There were jokes and smiles, but nothing excessive.

The verdict graded by Dr. Bose himself:

Infernal Affairs: 1 Bose Star way down.

The Departed: 9 Bose Stars way up.

 

[tk3]

The whole Asian -> Hollywood movies concept disgusts me, so I made a deal with myself never to watch any.
Try it, it's a good one.

If anything, both of the leads look too damn young compared to their Asian counterparts (although Di Caprio is in his 30's?), they would be better suited to play the roles in IA II. (god forbid they make a remake of that too

)
But then again, Andy Lau is just so good at that "partly nice guy, partly evil guy but still likeable" role, twas hard to top.

 

[blessingx]

I've said it before.

If you want a smartly constructed, suspenseful action flick see Infernal Affairs.
If you want a smartly constructed commentary on masculinity, from masking/posturing, family history/individual identity, sexual orientation, etc. told through an action structure, see The Departed.

I think it's quite clear they have different goals. Now it all depends on what you want.

You could certainly view The Departed as a slow, meandering, remake of a much tighter Infernal Affairs. Or you could view Infernal Affairs as the skeleton that Scorsese used to tell a much larger story in The Departed.

Personally, I saw them a few days apart. I bashed The Departed when first viewing it. In fact Infernal Affairs is what made me see The Departeds greatness.

The differences between these films have been expressed repeatedly on this site and elsewhere as cultural. Possibly, but if so only in genre expectations. I consider Infernal Affairs a genre film. It is the focus and its primary strength. I don't consider The Departed a genre film. It transcends that and enters drama. The fact that the Infernal Affairs supporters talk about that film so differently (technology used, mole-on-mole action, etc.) than The Departed fans (Colins discomfort at babies gender, Dignam/Ellerby chest beating, etc.) is a huge clue.

 

[virometal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want a smartly constructed, suspenseful action flick see Infernal Affairs. If you want a smartly constructed commentary on masculinity, from masking/posturing, family history/individual identity, sexual orientation, etc. told through an action structure, see The Departed.

Boy, that is well said.

I watched Infernal Affairs a couple times after The Departed. So it may not be surprising that I liked the former better. Doesn't that always seem to be the case?

With that caveat, The Departed is much more ambitious. IMO, some get lost in the sweeping gesture of it and lose just how much is going on underneath, and how much repeated viewings are rewarded. The second time I watched IA, there didn't feel like anything new was there. Maybe a cultural bias was exposed? (I'm not Asian).

None the less, for me, Infernal Affairs was a good tight thriller. The Departed was a defining grand gesture - like comparing Carlito's Way to Once Upon a Time in America.

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by virometal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Boy, that is well said. I watched Internal Affairs a couple times after The Departed. So it may not be surprising that I liked the former better. Doesn't that always seem to be the case? With that caveat, The Departed is much more ambitious. IMO, some get lost in the sweeping gesture of it and lose just how much is going on underneath, and how much repeated viewings are rewarded. The second time I watched IF, there didn't feel like anything new was there. Maybe a cultural bias was exposed? (I'm not Asian). None the less, for me, Internal Affairs was a good tight thriller. The Departed was a defining grand gesture - like comparing Carlito's Way to Once Upon a Time in America.

hmmmm. too sweeping. it could not try to be simple. i find it in no way near any great thing such as sweeping. it is just as is: to much laid out. there is no space for internal warfare or thought. it is too much just a he gets me so i get him film.

if i did not compare it to the original, i could compare it to any film i've seen recently and come away with the same problems: it is trite. the action has been seen well before; the acting was just scrub potty together and you have it - the sad story - we don't need it to enjoy a film. plus, this story is old, there is no reason to rehash a good-guy bad guy film.

nothing great about it and not worth a repeat viewing. i won't argue anything between the two as to cultural differences because what culture were we veiwing? Irish? haha, there was one bloody irish in the film and what did he do? just piss off the americans - or were they supposed to be irish. the old man said it enough to the chinese government - 'in this country' - 'in this country' and on and on.

in a way, now it helps me understand other funny films such as spiderman - whereby the bad guy in the beginning is the organised crime syndicate - and they look silly. here too, all i see is silly. the movie and its backstory were not meant to be taken as anything compelling. how can anyone take such spoon fed droll as serious?

anyway, im glad you mates enjoyed it but - i shall certainly never go see a film that anyone recommends again. specifically anyone who is caught up in seeing films that only show up in places like silver city, cineplex odeon etc.

severe letdown - in any genre - in any screenwrite - in any language - in any country.

 

[Samgotit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif anyway, im glad you mates enjoyed it but - i shall certainly never go see a film that anyone recommends again.

I agree. A bagillion people seemed to love "Old Boy". If I wanted to see a bunch silly, drawn out of melee scenes, I'd would've chosen to go to a c/ock fight. Unfortunately, it's just recently been banned in Louisiana.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif anyway, im glad you mates enjoyed it but - i shall certainly never go see a film that anyone recommends again. specifically anyone who is caught up in seeing films that only show up in places like silver city, cineplex odeon etc.

Well I'm not sure if that's a two part proposal? Is so, the first part would be hard to follow (even retreating to your previously started 'old' criteria - was Tokyo Story or Wings of Desire or Hiroshima Mon Amour or Third Man not great before they aged? Are not films like New World or Adaptation or Junebug or Half Nelson so - even if a bit lesser - now?). As for the second part, shouldn't you have been following this always?

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. A bagillion people seemed to love "Old Boy". If I wanted to see a bunch silly, drawn out of melee scenes, I'd would've chosen to go to a c/ock fight. Unfortunately, it's just recently been banned in Louisiana.

haha, yes that movie was just an excuse for hammer hitting etc. nasty

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I'm not sure if that's a two part proposal? Is so, the first part would be hard to follow (even retreating to your previously started 'old' criteria - was Tokyo Story or Wings of Desire or Hiroshima Mon Amour or Third Man not great before they aged? Are not films like New World or Adaptation or Junebug or Half Nelson so - even if a bit lesser - now?). As for the second part, shouldn't you have been following this always?

however you are right. i cannot see a movie that at least someone does not recommend. though i see films usually so long after they have been out of cinema that it is not longer near anyone's radar or care-list. i think that helps me avoid the fotm crowd and see a movie as a movie. that is why i reacted so harshly to this film though it is quite recent.

i have never seen any of the films you have listed up there - and if they are recommendations - i might just stay home! cheers

 

[Samgotit]

Ironically, 2 people I do trust for film picks, The Blessed X and Heir Metal, are the other posters in this thread.

 

[virometal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i won't argue anything between the two as to cultural differences because what culture were we veiwing?

Or what culture were we viewing it through?

Nice Bose rating scale btw.

Sweet touch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit The Blessed X and Heir Metal, are the other posters in this thread.

That's good! Heir Metal; I like that - best nick evarr.

 

[Orpheus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The whole Asian -> Hollywood movies concept disgusts me, so I made a deal with myself never to watch any. Try it, it's a good one. If anything, both of the leads look too damn young compared to their Asian counterparts (although Di Caprio is in his 30's?), they would be better suited to play the roles in IA II. (god forbid they make a remake of that too ) But then again, Andy Lau is just so good at that "partly nice guy, partly evil guy but still likeable" role, twas hard to top.

i mean this respectfully.... but you're kidding right!? andy just has "lame" written all over him. one of the worst actors i've seen. everytime i see him, in a movie, concert, interview, whatever, he just seems totally "gay" (i don't know how else to call it--i don't mean his sexual disposition)......... partly nice guy?--no, he's too full of himself. partly evil?--"evil" is the last thing i think of when i see him. "likeable" well, maybe i guess, just cause everyone is likeable by someone out there.

movie is good. i hate remakes in general. i didn't watch infernal affairs in its entirety. might be good, i dunno. but i do know i liked the departed, which means the original story was pretty good. but i do think that they should indicate it was a remake of the original hong kong / chinese film... otherwise the american public would never know. especially for a movie that won awards.

 

[RYCeT]

IMHO Andy Lau's acting is ok, nothing special but Tony Leung's is excellent. Orpheus, you should look at IA. I watched IA first and IMHO the departed is a big disappointment.

 

[uraflit]

i watched infernal affairs wayyyy back when, and rewatched it a couple times too. i felt it was a great movie, but had some "holes" in its storyline... but i think they were purposely added for the audience to think about it

i felt as though the departed took infernal affairs and simplified it for the general american audience. they directly went through most of the story and excluded random events that added character to the main characters... eg. hifi store scene, tony leung's "encounter" with his old "friend", etc.

i still thought the departed was good... even though i think infernal affairs was much better =]

and has anyone noticed the name INFERNAL affairs? did they mean for it to be like that? or was it a typo and meant to be: INTERNAL affairs?

?_?

 

[Zorander]

INFERNAL sounds more mysterious and alluring to the audience.

 

[pkshiu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uraflit /img/forum/go_quote.gif and has anyone noticed the name INFERNAL affairs? did they mean for it to be like that? or was it a typo and meant to be: INTERNAL affairs? ?_?

Like many Hong Kong movies, the English title is very different from the original Chinese Title. In this case, the original title is a buddhist term that means "ultimate hell", meaning these people are operating or living in the worst hell. Infernal affair is probably a "clever" word play on both "Internal Affair" and (dante) "Inferno", i.e. hell.

IA, and IA2 and IA3 are three great films. I have departed coming up on my netflix queue very soon, so I will hold my comments on the comparison. But IA is a very specific film that (re)started a whole genre of gritty cops story in Asian Cinema. So I view it as more than just a good story. Finally, being 100% bilingual, I really think the subtitle does not do the dialog justice and somethings are lost both in language, and also cultural translation. As there are many HK cops/crime concepts that are well known by a typical HK person . So it may take watching a few more HK movies to start to get that stuff.