[iancraig10]

With the Irivers in particular, the headphone output is really hissy and I would say, as bad as listening to an old cassette tape with no dolby. It has the effect of dulling the highs.

The Ipod shuffle is worse than the Nano. The Samsung YP5 series hiss nicely.

The impedance of the superfi 5 pro is 22 ohms I think so they are very efficient but there comes a point when efficiency makes things worse for many DAPs. Maybe that point is roughly 32 ohms which makes me wonder why the manufacturers couldn't turn them out with slightly higher impedance. That would cure it ... unless the sound of the IEM itself would be impeded as a result of slightly higher impedance.

The resistors that I have tried in line certainly affect the quality of the sound - it's not quite as punchy in the bass region but the hiss goes! (So they take the 'hiss'!!) ;-0

Ian

 

[MadMonky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The resistors that I have tried in line certainly affect the quality of the sound - it's not quite as punchy in the bass region but the hiss goes! (So they take the 'hiss'!!) ;-0 Ian

Couldn't the change in sound be caused by the kind of resistor/wire/connectors used? I know I've read elsewhere on the forums how other users haven't noticed any difference. I plan on testing this myself at some point, but not for a few months

 

[Illidan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMonky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Couldn't the change in sound be caused by the kind of resistor/wire/connectors used? I know I've read elsewhere on the forums how other users haven't noticed any difference. I plan on testing this myself at some point, but not for a few months

Adding resistors do affect the sound, but they are EQ rather than SQ improvement imho.

 

[PooJou]

Guys the point is pretty much your sources are noisy - my IHP-130 is noisy when nothing when playing, but you'll get used to it eventually I'd say?

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooJou /img/forum/go_quote.gif Guys the point is pretty much your sources are noisy - my IHP-130 is noisy when nothing when playing, but you'll get used to it eventually I'd say?

Well, they're not designed to drive such low impedance headphones. That's why I wonder why the manufacturers of many of the better IEM's make them at such low impedance - what are they designed to work with?

If you're not bothered by hiss then they're fine but for the cost of say, Superfi 5's or even more costly IEM's, what's the point other than isolation so that you hear even more hiss?

Rock/pop stuff is fine as long as it remains loud so the hiss is masked.

There seems to be a problem matching most IEM's to DAP's that manufacturers of IEM's don't seem to have noticed.

Ian

 

[audiomagnate]

Again, would you complain about a car that ran poorly on bad gas, or would you complain about the bad gas? None of my vintage PCDPs hiss, and they were made before IEMs existed, so it's not rocket science to design a quiet portable amp.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiomagnate /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, would you complain about a car that ran poorly on bad gas, or would you complain about the bad gas? None of my vintage PCDPs hiss, and they were made before IEMs existed, so it's not rocket science to design a quiet portable amp.

It's also not rocket science to design a headphone that sounds good at 32 ohms, so that the majority of DAP users would feel that the IEM was worth the amount spent on them.

I would say that there are not many DAPs that collate with good gas. They are portable and cheap. I don't envisage using an IEM on my home set up because I didn't think that is really what they're designed for.

So what are they designed for then? (Other than stage use and noisy DAP listening)

Ian

 

[audiomagnate]

I don't think you're ever going to understand this, but I'll give it one more try. Armature designs are by their nature efficient. There is NOTHING WRONG with your IEMs. They are passive devices and CANNOT HISS. The fact that companies have been producing quiet portable amps that work well with IEMs yet are capable of driving traditional cans for over twenty years proves that it's not a difficult a task. Find a quiet source, (again, not that difficult) and quit complaining about something that isn't broken.

Designing in inefficiency to an efficient product doesn't make any sense. IEMs are not designed for use with "noisy DAP"s, they're designed for use with quiet DAPs. And "cheap"ness and low noise floor don't correlate in DAPs. Even the MPIO's players, one of which is Dr. Xin's favorite, are incredibly cheap on the used market but completely hiss free when used with UM2s. I like the fact that UM2s are efficient and easy to drive.

You're complaining might be justified if the IEMs in question were ridiculously sensitive, say 130dB or so, and hissed with every source. But they aren't, and they don't. BTW, IEMs almost always hiss on home headphone setups because they were designed for relatively inefficient full sized headphones. Buy a Zune 30 for $99 at Newegg, or an MPIO for a few bucks on Ebay.

 

[jant71]

How about Jays that run at 40ohms, Atrios that run at 32ohms, Ety and other choices that are higher impedance. It isn't rocket science and there are quite a few models that sound very good and do have higher impedance. The new Pioneers also use armatures and have 32ohm impedance and a low sensitivity(105db/mw).

There are at least a dozen higher impedance and/or lower sensitivity armature based phones that have SQ worth mentioning. They are not the majority but what's the big argument about? Just like DAPs theses phones are consumer electronics and not true professional stuff. The noiseless DAPs are in the minority but are to be found just like the higher impedance phones are the minority but can be found. The problem can be solved either way.

Add Toshiba to the list, they don't hiss either.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiomagnate /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think you're ever going to understand this, but I'll give it one more try. .

Nice ......

I understand exactly what you are saying but I chose to ignore your caustic overtones since I'm not sure that you understand what I was getting at. There was no need for you to give it one more try. I had nothing to say because you are obviously so right.

Many comments appear on this site asking about hiss on MP3 players. A new one has just appeared now in fact. (Things like - which MP3 player doesn't hiss?)

I wonder if you can understand this.

Most people use MP3 players with the silly buds that come with them. Other people move on to something more sensitive in an attempt to get a louder sound from the MP3 player since they have such naff outputs.

It isn't possible to try out IEM's because the manufacturers normally seal them in a plastic thing that cuts your skin when you try and open them. So you buy them thinking that they will be an improvement when what happens is they produce the noise from the DAP more efficiently, so yes .... it is the DAP. We all understand this.

You are saying that I need to get a better MP3 player in order to make the IEM's sound better. The source isn't good enough. The IEM's are efficient and merely pointing out the faults of the MP3 player.

Which MP3 players are the good ones then so that they match my IEM's better because I have a load of MP3 players and they all hiss with the good IEM's except 1 ......

The Ipod Classic doesn't hiss!!!!! (With the very sensitive superfi pro 5's) So the output from the MP3 player is cleaner and the earbuds are pointing this out.

Nano is,'t bad.
Irivers 120 and 320 hiss nicely. (And small portables)
Samsung (is YX P5) series have the snakes.
Shuffle hisses away.

Classic - the snow has gone.

We need a list of hissers. Audiomagnate, your 'don't think you're ever going to understand this, but I'll give it one more try' comment 'hissed' me off so I refrained from replying but it was a rude thing to say and sometimes it's better to be quiet than be rude.

Ian (Hiss gone on Classic!!)

 

[shigzeo]

the hiss with spf5pro may be gone but i was told by others that the d2 did not hiss with those phones either and i got the d2 and used it with my um2 and it hissed quite a bit.

i am sure that the classic hisses only a little but i would love to hear it from the um2.

audiomagnate, mate you really came with a hammer to a pudding party. i am sure you thought of many ways to say what you said with a little more finesse or class but perhaps it is your keyboard that is not working correctly. i understand the problem. you could buy another one - maybe a cheaper one.

as far as portable amps that have no hiss - that too is wrong. a um2 will hiss with any portable amp - no matter how little. in fact it will hiss almost as much as the quietest of hissing daps. so, as far as having a portable amp bumped to innards of one of these hissless players, that too is a little silly. silly may be too harsh a word though well, you showed class to rise above cutting someone up. cheers mate

 

[iancraig10]

Thanks Shigzeo.

Maybe it would be useful to create a list of decent (as far as decent MP3 goes) setups and which IEM's work well with which MP3 player!!

The amount of money that I have flung into portable music is ridiculous and the Superfi Pro 5 was the last straw for me. I was considering going up to a better IEM (Superfis again) but it seems that would be a waste of money since the hiss created by the MP3 players would be even clearer.

A list of hissless players may be useful!!!

I am an old pop musician so my hearing isn't as high as it could be maybe but even I am aware of the hissing snakes so it must be torture to younger ears.

The idea of spending another £200 - £300 on IEM's now seems pointless since the MP3 players apparently aren't up to it with their noisy outputs.

My IEM's are fitted to my ears and so work well and are great for stage use but I can't get on with the incessant hiss from MP3 players. Mostly because I listen at low levels when I'm not working to protect my hearing. (Or what's left of it) The hiss level stays constant so the music has to be quite loud to make the noise levels appear to be low.

As for the other guy, he basically closed down the discussion which happens too often on this site from people who know so much about hi fi!! I haven't posted much recently because of the caustic gangs. Get a bit tired of it.

Ian

 

[shigzeo]

you love caustic don't you?! haha. yeah, we are full of causticness. actually, i get to a point every 3 or four months where i get fed up with this place. but i am addicted: it has many faults but the positives of getting juicy spoilt subjective information about new phones/amps/dacs and portables is too addictive. i suppose it is like the dramas i am watching now. they are soft and get boring if you have them all in one dose, but spread out wide enough, even with the endless howling, it stays fun.

yeah a list would be helpful but very hard. as has been demonstrated here over and over: even hissless players with a sensitive headphone will hiss to another person. some people just hear hiss more than others. others realise there is hiss much later: for instance months later. so a hissless player could eventually be found to have hiss. the best thing is to check as many opinions as possible. the majority is probably right as long it is not groups of people who are just parotting back what others have said without trying the product. that too happens here often.

also, there are products here that will not hiss because people like the company and other companies that no matter how good they actually sound, will sound crap or hiss like mad despite the opposite.

 

[iancraig10]

Well .... if I ask sound engineers a simple question like, 'what are the headphones that you're montoring on like?' - you get a long winded answer that doesn't answer the question, followed up by an insult about your ignorance on the subject making me wish that I hadn't opened my mouth!!!

I was reading a post like that on here yesterday and it SO reminded me of some of the engineers that i have worked with. It's almost like they're a waitin' fer ya!

It really hisses me off.

Ian

 

[robojack]

I have the Cowon D2, and I'm finding with both my Superfi 5 Pro's and Atrio M5's that I get NO hiss whatsoever. Especially with the Atrio's which are more insensitive than most IEMs at 32ohm, cranking the sound up to 34/50 still gives me to no hiss, so pretty impressed with the IEMs.

I recently added a Tomahawk amp to this setup, and I couldn't be happier with the results.